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Subject: What is a "job?" rss

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Martin Kulp
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Say I open a lemonade stand in my front yard. After a little bit of advertising by means of nailing up signs around the neighborhood, I begin pulling in a profit of, say, about $20 a day.

Now let's say I'm sick of sitting on my lawn chair all day every day so I offer to pay some local kid $2 a day to do it for me. He thinks this is great because it's more than his weekly allowance, so he does it. I sit back and pocket the remaining $18 for myself. Meanwhile, I keep advertising and keep advertising and more customers come and I sell more and more lemonade. Now I'm making $40 a day.

The kid is doing a good job, so I offer to pay him more: $2.40 a day. He's thrilled.

Now, why would anyone be crazy enough to work for that little while doing almost ALL the menial work? Wouldn't he better off opening his own lemonade stand and doing the EXACT same work for ALL the profit instead of just a speck of it? Or perhaps partnering up with me or one of my competitors and taking half the profit? Why is he such a schmuck?

That, my friends, is what's known as a "job." "Employment." "Wage slavery." And for some reason society makes us all think that this is what life is all about. "Go to college and get good grades so you can get a good job."

I for one am sick of it. This isn't the way life is supposed to be. I'm going to start my own business and work for myself, set my own hours, and determine for myself when I should get a raise.
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Paul DeStefano
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You state only what is obvious. It is good that you have seen the light.
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Dave Lartigue
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A job is what you do to get money so you can do what you want. I have a job. From 8 to 5 each day I do it, and then at 5 I leave it, and I don't think about it until 8 the next day. And I couldn't care less how well the company I work for does, and I have no interest whatsoever in the industry it's in. I know what I'm supposed to do, I do it to the best of my abilities, and I get a check. that's it. If the company were to cease to exist tomorrow, I'd grab a different job. I'm not in this to define my role in society, I'm in it for the check.

And that's fine with me. They get work out of me, I get a check out of them, and I use it to have a house and a car and some games and some comics and internet and whatever. And I'm not one of these poor idiots that gets a huger check and has a nicer house that he never goes to, a nicer car he only drives to work, and the ability to take wonderful vacations he can't actually go on because he has to work. I make work work for me.
 
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Stephen Harkleroad
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hammiesink wrote:
Now, why would anyone be crazy enough to work for that little while doing almost ALL the menial work? Wouldn't he better off opening his own lemonade stand and doing the EXACT same work for ALL the profit instead of just a speck of it? Or perhaps partnering up with me or one of my competitors and taking half the profit? Why is he such a schmuck?


He's a "schmuck" because maybe he doesn't have the capital or the credit to start his own business. Or maybe he doesn't know enough about the field to justify opening a business. Maybe he's risk-averse and would rather have a reasonably stable job instead of one where he could be ravished by competition, strikes, bad luck, or any combination thereof. Or perhaps he's trading the increased wages with not having the responsibility of worrying about making big, messy judgement calls he doesn't have the inclination to make a good living at it.

These are all perfectly justifiable reasons for being employed instead of being an employer. Hardly a "schmuck."
 
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Martin Kulp
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Quote:
A job is what you do to get money so you can do what you want. I have a job. From 8 to 5 each day I do it, and then at 5 I leave it, and I don't think about it until 8 the next day. And I couldn't care less how well the company I work for does, and I have no interest whatsoever in the industry it's in. I know what I'm supposed to do, I do it to the best of my abilities, and I get a check. that's it. If the company were to cease to exist tomorrow, I'd grab a different job. I'm not in this to define my role in society, I'm in it for the check.


I have no wish to "define" my role in society either. I have no principles I'm fighting for. I have no desire to be an alpha male.

I have simply discovered how ridiculous it is to work all day long for someone else and make $Y when you could work all day long for yourself and make $Y x 100.

Yes, it MAY be more work to start your own business than working a job, though not in every case and in many cases after the business is off and running it may actually become LESS work than a job. It all depends.
 
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Dave Lartigue
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hammiesink wrote:
I have simply discovered how ridiculous it is to work all day long for someone else and make $Y when you could work all day long for yourself and make $Y x 100.


It's ridiculous to work all day long, period. If you can make enough working for yourself and still have time for yourself, go for it.
 
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Philip Thomas
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My profession (if I attain it) is technically self-employed. But I think its important to society that some people work for other people. There are any number of businesses and services that simply wouldn't work if everyone was self-employed.

Of course, if you want to be one of the many self-employed people, go ahead. Do remember to save up for your old age...
 
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Chaddyboy
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I'm a schmuck because I like working 8-5 and then not having to worry about work when I go home. Owning a business would mean that I actually have to worry about stuff.
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Shellie Rose
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ROTFL.

My experience with owning your owning business:

My mother (real estate): Worked 60 - 80 hours a week until she retired. Annual salary, less than what I make working 32 hours a week at a "job." No health insurance, no benefits, no paid vacation.

My Friend (Bike Shop): Works 60 - 80 hours a week. Annual salary, less than what I make working 32 hours a week at a "job." No health insurance, no benifits, no paid vacation. Didn't pull a salary for the first three years (lived off his wife's income). After seven years was finally able to take one full day off per week.

Another Friend (Ice Cream/Deli Resturant): After four years, closed up shop and filed bankrupcy for the business. Accumulated $80,000 worth of personal debt in the process.




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Martin Kulp
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And yet, I refuse to give up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout most of civilization until the 20th century, weren't most people a business unto themselves? The carpenter, the apothecarist, the shopkeeper, etc.
 
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M G
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hammiesink wrote:
And yet, I refuse to give up.


I don’t think anyone is trying to get you to give up on your dream; most are simply stating the obvious: jumping into a business isn’t all the roses and sunshine you seem to make it out to be. For every Bill Gates and Microsoft (or the equivalent), there are hundreds of thousands of businesses that are struggling by or have completely washed away.

I personally could add to what has already been said, but I don’t think there is any need to.
 
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John So-And-So
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Jesus, you people make me sick. What a response.

Don't listen to the people who want to make you feel small for thinking big, dude. Do it. Make yourself happy, that is what life is about. If you can't take the 9-5 any more, don't. Nobody ever accomplished anything by deciding "yeah, it's probably not gonna work. Never mind".

I'm pulling for you to succeed.
 
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George Kinney
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hammiesink wrote:
And yet, I refuse to give up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout most of civilization until the 20th century, weren't most people a business unto themselves? The carpenter, the apothecarist, the shopkeeper, etc.



Those people would have all started as apprentices, so they were all employees to begin with.

No reason to give up, but experience and deep knowledge of a field are what lead to successful self-employment, and there is no path to either of them other than by doing the job. Which usually means working for someone else, unless having an income isn't important while your developing.
 
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Ed Sherman
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hammiesink wrote:
I have simply discovered how ridiculous it is to work all day long for someone else and make $Y when you could work all day long for yourself and make $Y x 100.


Congratulations on deciding this for yourself. Now go forth and do good.

On the other hand, don't knock people that don't choose your path.
 
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Geoff Bohrer
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hammiesink wrote:
And yet, I refuse to give up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout most of civilization until the 20th century, weren't most people a business unto themselves? The carpenter, the apothecarist, the shopkeeper, etc.


Actually, throughout most of history, most people have been slaves, serfs, or peasants; either outright chattels or bonded by debt or land. Maybe a quarter have been freemen of some variety or another; most of these being nomad warriors, but some being town-based craftsmen or merchants. A very few have been bosses of some sort; nobles being the most common, but sometimes members of a meritocracy or simply Citizens of some kind of free city.

That said, my first business just coughed and died after four years of trying; the debts are almost paid off, and I'll be taking another shot at it while my wife works a "job" to keep us fed and housed.

Keep at it!
 
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Rob
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Martin,

There are numerous books and classes available about starting your own business. Invest your money there first, and you'll have a better chance of success. Good luck!
 
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Robert Wesley
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Just remember this GINORMOUS "nugget": you'll NEED to 'project' your future "quarter's" expected 'profits' and file that "estimate" with the I.R.S. in order to 'pay' your "income taxes" upon such. Should you go OVER 'this', then you'll most likely be "penalized" in addition to 'paying' more of that. Just ask some of the poor folks here who are 'doing' it all, as this may vary depending upon what your local city, county, state, etc. "entities" also 'dun' you for as well.
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"gee, but you DO get to 'be' your own BOSS! yay..."
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Michael Tagge
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Wow, what a gross oversimplification! I assume that you have insurance for your lemonade stand. And you are paying taxes on that $2.40 a day, as well as for a CPA to make sure you are not running afoul of any laws. Oh yeah, and you are paying workers comp as well as all of the employment taxes for the kid. This is one thing if you are working in the grey market economy, but to be legit it is very different than the scenario that you described above. And heaven forbid if he spilled lemonade that was too cold in a customer's lap.

Now for me with my job, I am doing something that I couldn't be doing as my own boss, managing a piece of a huge international network. Tons of travel, and decent pay but great benefits with boku time off and a great retirement plan. I could make an argument most self employed people are not as good off as I am. And yes, it does require a college education and technical skills, but it is extremely fun and low pressure as long as you know what you are doing.
 
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Gary Heidenreich
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http://www.homestead.com/orderofthesloth/

 
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The Steak Fairy
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Honestly, who cares what you do? But thanks for letting us know how you feel. I really only came to the thread to see GROGnads use the word 'ginormous'. Those of us who really hate working let our spouses do it, but it's all predicated on your ability to find a spouse who loves to work.
 
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shumyum
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Lemonade is so yummy!
 
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Dave Serrette
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That's why I'm an English major.

So I can drink all the lemonade I want and write about it.
 
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Rob
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GrandpaDave wrote:
That's why I'm an English major.

So I can drink all the lemonade I want and write about it.


laugh
 
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Flying Arrow
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gbohrer wrote:
hammiesink wrote:
And yet, I refuse to give up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout most of civilization until the 20th century, weren't most people a business unto themselves? The carpenter, the apothecarist, the shopkeeper, etc.


Actually, throughout most of history, most people have been slaves, serfs, or peasants; either outright chattels or bonded by debt or land. Maybe a quarter have been freemen of some variety or another; most of these being nomad warriors, but some being town-based craftsmen or merchants. A very few have been bosses of some sort; nobles being the most common, but sometimes members of a meritocracy or simply Citizens of some kind of free city.

That said, my first business just coughed and died after four years of trying; the debts are almost paid off, and I'll be taking another shot at it while my wife works a "job" to keep us fed and housed.

Keep at it!


I'm not sure I agree with this. Most people who ever lived are currently alive, and while slavery/serfdom does still exist in parts of the world it is not the norm today by any stretch of the imagination. If you want to count being poor due to lack of access to arable land in that category, then I think I'd grant that point.
 
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