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Subject: Worth 100 bucks? rss

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Christopher James
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Is it? Or should i wait for a price drop?
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Michael Mitchell
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tierdal wrote:
Is it? Or should i wait for a price drop?

I got the game today from my local friendly games store. I really like the concept, the miniatures you do get, the basic rules that I have read, and the Star Wars universe, but there is not a lot in the box. ( so you do feel somewhat that you're not getting bang for your buck...)
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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CoolStuffInc has it for $69.

Even the back of the box doesn't really make it look like there's a lot in it. The box itself though is really deep.

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Sean Conroy
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Not full retail price, but worth the $70 I paid online. I see most of the price being in the pre painting.
 
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Christopher James
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Why is it so darn expensive
 
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Michael Carter
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tierdal wrote:
Why is it so darn expensive


I think FFG is testing the market to see how far they can push prices. The fact that Disney is printed on the back of the box doesn't help, either.
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Chris Montgomery
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Franchise licenses, painting, popularity/demand, and . . . Did I say franchise licenses? I don't have personal knowledge of how much they paid for the license, but I expect it to be substantial. Being able to use the Star Wars universe as the basis for the game is a lot more marketable and valuable than "Runewars: Armada".
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Gary Averett
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uh...whose turn is it?
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Add up the ships individually and it isn't really that expensive. It's like you are getting a discount for buying the ships all at once and they throw in the maneuver tool and dice for free.
That's the attitude that I am taking anyway.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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greenpawn wrote:
Add up the ships individually and it isn't really that expensive. It's like you are getting a discount for buying the ships all at once and they throw in the maneuver tool and dice for free.
That's the attitude that I am taking anyway.


Er, which is only because the ships are overpriced, if I offered you a rock for 40$ and then offered you to get a discount of just 100$ for 3 rocks and some pebbles, that wouldn't mean those 3 rocks suddenly weren't expensive just because I overpriced the rock.

Edit: For what it's worth, I preordered all of Wave 1, I'm just tired of this stupid argument that just because B is MORE overpriced than A, A must therefore be reasonable.
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Gary Averett
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Hmm.. I don't think that the individually packaged models are really that overpriced.
 
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Greg C
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Yes.
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greenpawn wrote:
Hmm.. I don't think that the individually packaged models are really that overpriced.


That's an individual determination of course, personally I'm strongly tending towards "they are", but I'm holding off my final judgement until I actually have my box and can see how big and how nice they really are (Remember, some people here thought that the Wave 2 ISD was as big as the X-Wing Tantive).

But at any rate, and this -like my prior post- is not primarily directed at you so much as it is an argument I hear every time someone points out any game is pricey or that X-Wing and Armada are pretty expensive games to get into specifically: If you do think that the ships are overpriced, arguing that you can get them slightly less overpriced is a hollow argument - especially if it's under such special circumstances as the "discount" being only available for the ships in the core set, which won't be of much use for anyone who wants to expand their options as opposed to just getting more ships regardless of their function.

I predict that, once I have them in my hand, I'll think one of 2 things, either: "Hey, these are a reasonable size for their purpose (say 2-4 times the size of a small X-Wing ship) - But then why are they so stupidly expensive?", or "Holy hell, these ships are really nice and big and worth the money - But at half the size they'd be much easier to play with!", because if they're as big and nicely painted as they HAVE to be to justify those prices, they're much bigger than they reasonably should be to play a fleet action game.

But, of course, it's all idle speculation at this point: I've preordered the stuff, I'll probably stick to the system for the foreseeable future, but FFG's recent tendency to crank up the prices while cranking down the content for every new release is still not going to sit well with me, and for me the point where I'll have to abandon their lines (Which would be sad, I really love their games) is pretty damn close, and while I HOPE that Armada will convince me otherwise, I'd be quite surprised.
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David Hammel
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Edit: For what it's worth, I preordered all of Wave 1, I'm just tired of this stupid argument that just because B is MORE overpriced than A, A must therefore be reasonable.


I sort of agree, but sort of don't. I think value is at least a little subjective, for one thing, and comparing it to the non licensed equivalents on the market, they're not a abd deal as far as prepainted miniatures go.

The real question is, I'm already invested in X Wing, Imperial Assault, the RPG and the LCG... why would I want to spend another $70 so soon on yet another Star Wars game after Imperial Assault / X Wing Wave 6 released?
 
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Thomas Koziatek
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TheGreatHamEl wrote:
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Edit: For what it's worth, I preordered all of Wave 1, I'm just tired of this stupid argument that just because B is MORE overpriced than A, A must therefore be reasonable.


I sort of agree, but sort of don't. I think value is at least a little subjective, for one thing, and comparing it to the non licensed equivalents on the market, they're not a abd deal as far as prepainted miniatures go.

The real question is, I'm already invested in X Wing, Imperial Assault, the RPG and the LCG... why would I want to spend another $70 so soon on yet another Star Wars game after Imperial Assault / X Wing Wave 6 released?


Because they are all different games, despite of all residing in the SW universe.
 
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TheGreatHamEl wrote:
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Edit: For what it's worth, I preordered all of Wave 1, I'm just tired of this stupid argument that just because B is MORE overpriced than A, A must therefore be reasonable.


I sort of agree, but sort of don't. I think value is at least a little subjective, for one thing, and comparing it to the non licensed equivalents on the market, they're not a abd deal as far as prepainted miniatures go.

The real question is, I'm already invested in X Wing, Imperial Assault, the RPG and the LCG... why would I want to spend another $70 so soon on yet another Star Wars game after Imperial Assault / X Wing Wave 6 released?


I skipped IA (so far) partly because I'm really not that fond of their distribution method there, mostly because I already have virtually everything for Descent 1 AND 2 and with Armada announced, I didn't see the point of getting a game that was SO similar to D2 when Armada promises a rather different experience from X-Wing.

That being said, I'm still fever dreaming of getting a SW-RPG group going and mashing together modified versions of Armada, X-Wing and IA for different levels of combat resolution, so if I ever get around to that I'll end up getting all of IA anyway -.-
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David Hammel
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Stealth7 wrote:
Because they are all different games, despite of all residing in the SW universe.


They certainly want you to think that way. Baaaaa. For me tho, it doesn't matter, my pool of available money doesn't magically expand just because there's a new game, and I already have my space combat fix with X Wing, so... I feel absolutely no compulsion to buy this. Might be space combat on a different scale, but I feel no need.

Flamin_Jesus wrote:
I skipped IA (so far) partly because I'm really not that fond of their distribution method there, mostly because I already have virtually everything for Descent 1 AND 2 and with Armada announced, I didn't see the point of getting a game that was SO similar to D2 when Armada promises a rather different experience from X-Wing.

That being said, I'm still fever dreaming of getting a SW-RPG group going and mashing together modified versions of Armada, X-Wing and IA for different levels of combat resolution, so if I ever get around to that I'll end up getting all of IA anyway -.-


I'm not crazy about being compelled to buy miniatures to replace cardboard tokens, buuuuuuuut... there's enough in IA to justify the $65 for me. I think the selling point for me was that it doubles as a decent skirmish game for 2 player play.

I think the cost of their RPG is what irks me more.
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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I sorta agree on the cost of the RPG, they really aren't cheap (back to subjective values, eh?), but in RPGs I'm a little more willing to tolerate pricy products, because any product beyond the core rulebook (and in the case of Pathfinder the first Bestiary) really IS optional, I can buy a couple rulebooks, maybe a setting book or two and some basic maps for (Going by SWRPG and Pathfinder) say 200-300€ (My buy-in for X-Wing was about this much, and that was back when the HWK was new!), after that everything is optional: Need a new setting? I can buy the companion for it if I want to, or I can read a short description on a wiki and go from there, or I can make up something whole cloth, Need a new monster? At this point I've got thousands of minis from all of my board games, the 2 Bones Kickstarters and more, I can just grab whatever I like and give it whatever stats I want, need a new class? Buy the book or make one up etc.

On the other hand, if I want to play with an ISD in Armada, I have to wait until it's available and then shell out 50€ for one ship, and that just gives me that one ship and its associated upgrade cards (And really, I hope they'll at least splurge on upgrade cards multiples at those prices, though the core set is already pretty sparse in that regard - would it have KILLED them to have 3 of each non-unique card in there? really?).

So I'm willing to overpay more for RPG material because it can be adapted without any big fuss and everything optional really IS optional, but on the board game side? Forget it, every ship gives you a precise number of additional options, and substitutions are difficult if not impossible, so if I buy an item that has exactly one use, I'm far less willing to overpay for that compared to something that has theoretically unlimited options built in.
 
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Chris Montgomery
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I think if you compare Star Wars Armada prices to the unpainted miniature lines of GW or Privateer Press, the prices are in the wheelhouse. A better comparison is what D.U.S.T. Tactics was charging for their painted miniatures. I think FF does a better paint job, and with prices right around the competition's. Or look at Ares' Sails of Glory / Wings of War. These prices - as compared to competitors - are reasonable. Arguably they should cost more due to the fact that they are set in a universe for which licenses have to be purchased. From Disney, no less.
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Peter O
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tierdal wrote:
Is it? Or should i wait for a price drop?


Whether or not it is, I doubt the price will drop below what you can find currently. Perhaps a quick sale here or there, but not that significant. Play with someone else's set first and decide for yourself.
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Yes, and if you compare them to Kingdom: Death prices, they're practically free.

But then, you can compare them to Reaper or Mantic (Neither of which are any weaker, sculpt-wise, than FFG's offerings, IMO), nevermind comparing them to what they can do (Look at the Bones KS and many others, I realize these prices aren't realistic at low sales numbers, but they prove that at less ludicrous prices, you CAN reach the sales numbers to keep prices down and still make a good profit). And it's obvious that while the Star Wars License costs money, it also brings in enough customers (Hey, people are still buying the Falcon just to put it on display, without ever bothering with the game!) to keep production costs per unit down.

Point being... Some mini manufacturers have to set high prices to meet their costs, others (*coughcoughGWcoughcough") have the sales to produce relatively cheaply and simply adjust their profit margins to obscene percentages. Obviously this is their right: If it works, it just means they have a smaller customer base with the same profits, I'm not saying they have to squeeze every cent out of their price just so I can get cheaper miniatures - BUT that doesn't mean their prices are "low", it just means they have the market share and brand name to demand much more than their competitors. At any rate I'm having trouble using the guys who spend most of their time trying to figure out how much they can demand before people just quit as a yardstick for "sensible" pricing.
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David Hammel
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Yes, and if you compare them to Kingdom: Death prices, they're practically free.

But then, you can compare them to Reaper or Mantic (Neither of which are any weaker, sculpt-wise, than FFG's offerings, IMO), nevermind comparing them to what they can do (Look at the Bones KS and many others, I realize these prices aren't realistic at low sales numbers, but they prove that at less ludicrous prices, you CAN reach the sales numbers to keep prices down and still make a good profit). And it's obvious that while the Star Wars License costs money, it also brings in enough customers (Hey, people are still buying the Falcon just to put it on display, without ever bothering with the game!) to keep production costs per unit down.

Point being... Some mini manufacturers have to set high prices to meet their costs, others (*coughcoughGWcoughcough") have the sales to produce relatively cheaply and simply adjust their profit margins to obscene percentages. Obviously this is their right: If it works, it just means they have a smaller customer base with the same profits, I'm not saying they have to squeeze every cent out of their price just so I can get cheaper miniatures - BUT that doesn't mean their prices are "low", it just means they have the market share and brand name to demand much more than their competitors. At any rate I'm having trouble using the guys who spend most of their time trying to figure out how much they can demand before people just quit as a yardstick for "sensible" pricing.


This. All this.
 
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:
At any rate I'm having trouble using the guys who spend most of their time trying to figure out how much they can demand before people just quit as a yardstick for "sensible" pricing.


As I said, I still think the prices are completely reasonable compared to their competitors. Especially when you factor in the fact that their competitors don't pay licensing fees for their products.

An Ares pre-painted Sails of Glory ship sells - depending on the model - between $12 and $25 MSRP. Their core set includes 4 ships, plus all other needed items for an MSRP of $100 $90 USD.

This is completely comparable in quantity of stuff to S:A, 3 capital ships, plus some squadrons . . . except Armada has added costs in the form of licenses and I would argue the paint job on them will be better (not that Ares does a bad job).

But to each their own. I suppose if it's too expensive, buyers can wait until some auctions hit - they should be able to pick up copies in a few months at a bit more of a price reduction.

Good discussion so far, guys. An enjoyable read and discussion.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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For what it's worth, I considered Sails of Glory, but decided their prices were too high for me (To be fair, I actually find SOG more interesting than Armada, but back when it started I couldn't afford it, and now I just don't feel like scratching together a system that's virtually unavailable here that has already a lot more stuff than Armada, it's a timing issue), but I don't think it's a fair comparison: For one the prices you state are more in line with X-Wing than Armada, for another they sell a product that is a niche (Mini gamers) of a niche (people interested in the Age of Sail) of a niche (Wargamers) of a niche (Board gamers) - rearrange as desired. There may be little difference from your perspective: It's a (relatively) local product, you have no way of easily determining how widespread it is, for me? If I wanted to buy it now I'd have to hunt down a specialty shop that may or may not stock it (more likely I'd have to order from the US) - but a week from now, I'll be able to walk into ANY local game store of just about any size and just pick up Armada, if my English weren't acceptable, I couldn't even play it - Armada will be released in German, Spanish, French and probably many other languages, I know about it only because I'm obsessed with games - Armada is something that most Star Wars fans will find out about at some point, if I asked my regular opponent about Sails of Glory I'd get a vacant stare - he's known about Armada for months...
And so on, Armada may be costly, but the license is so valuable it's worth it, for any SOG ship that moves you can expect 10, 20, maybe a hundred Star Destroyers to go over the counter.

The two games share many similarities, but their pricing structure and production costs just aren't comparable to me.
 
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David Hammel
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I still need to paint my Uncharted Seas miniatures...
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tierdal wrote:
Why is it so darn expensive


Because STAR DESTROYERS!!!!!
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