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Subject: Lucky Loop rules quandry rss

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Bryan
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I received this game as part of the recent Tanga Mystery Game deal. We played for the first time last night with a PDF of the English rules downloaded in the files section. We had MANY questions regarding the rules as they were unclear at best. Below is how we played, please let me know if we interpreted any of the rules incorrectly.

On each turn a player MAY do one of the following:


1. Draw three cards from any deck. Look at each card in turn before drawing another. Finally discarding cards until they have 6 in their hand.

--OR--

2. Play cards towards one of the stunt registers. This can be in the form of replacing 3 existing cards, or replacing 1 card. Regardless, after this is done the player redraws back up to 6 cards in their hand.

Then each player should (and this is where much confusion was at):


Attempt one of the stunt sequences. We did not require the player to attempt the stunt they had just played cards on in the previous part of the turn, but reasoned that it would make sense to require the player to do so.

Also, we reasoned that it may make sense to disallow attempting a stunt if a player draws cards on their turn. Basically saying that if they are required to attempt the stunt they played cards on, then it wouldn't make sense to allow them to attempt a stunt if they didn't play cards on any stunt.

There was also confusion about the contradictory rule about only playing a higher card if you play one card in a stunt register. The rules state it does not have to be a higher value. The illustration on the right side of the page states it does have to be a higher value. We played that if a player chooses to replace one card it must be of a higher value.

Any help/ideas/thoughts are appreciated.

And for what it is worth, we enjoyed this game, rules questions aside. It was certainly worth the ~$6 I paid for it.
 
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Brian Heckathorn
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These are my understandings based on the rules I downloaded from the Uberplay/Queen website here: http://www.uberplay.com/games/limited/index.html

Quote:
Attempt one of the stunt sequences. We did not require the player to attempt the stunt they had just played cards on in the previous part of the turn, but reasoned that it would make sense to require the player to do so.


My understanding is that once you are done laying down the either a single card on an existing flight plan or an entire flight plan of three cards, you then start your flight of three die-rolling rounds. After each die-rolling round you get to pick which of the non-completed tricks to which to apply the dice. So you don't have to attempt the trick you just played a single card on because you can choose to apply the dice to either of the other two cards. Even if you successfully complete one of your cards on the second die roll, you may prematurely end the flight which gains you no victory points, but does allow for a bonus chip. If you do this you may not even have to attempt the trick on that turn.

Quote:
Also, we reasoned that it may make sense to disallow attempting a stunt if a player draws cards on their turn. Basically saying that if they are required to attempt the stunt they played cards on, then it wouldn't make sense to allow them to attempt a stunt if they didn't play cards on any stunt.


Right. On a player's turn you either draw cards or file a flight plan(of which, flying is a part)

Quote:
There was also confusion about the contradictory rule about only playing a higher card if you play one card in a stunt register. The rules state it does not have to be a higher value. The illustration on the right side of the page states it does have to be a higher value. We played that if a player chooses to replace one card it must be of a higher value.


The english rules I downloaded from the Uberplay/Queen website are pretty clear: "After the first round, a player may also play a single card. He chooses a flight plan where cards have already been played and replaces one of those cards from his hand. The card he plays must be of the same color as the card replaced, but of a higher degree of difficulty. The replaced card is placed on the corresponding discard stack."


Hope this helps.
 
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Bryan
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Brian,

The rules from the official Uberplay/Queen website you linked to are much clearer. Thank you!
 
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Philip Hwang
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a brian, a bryan, and a ryan? i feel so out of place! at least i'm trying...

i also got this game from tanga's mystery game (three of them, actually), and i thought i'd ask my questions here in case someone might know this game better.

i had also originally thought that filing a flight plan was required to attempt a flight, but after re-reading the directions today, "The Flight" seems to be a separate thing.

the rules say that a player must "Trade cards" or "File a flight plan." Both of these sections are highlighted, followed by a section that says "The flight" which is also highlighted. Each section title also has a differently colored bullet, furthering my belief that "The flight" section is separate from the previous two. the only exception to this, of course, is the first flight.

about the arrows on the score card, if you land them, does this mean that you get an automatic bump to the next spot? it's not even mentioned in the rules. also, during the free flight, when you trade a card, you lose a point on the score track, but if you are on the spot in front of an arrow, does the arrow push you back into place? i see how this might work in a similar fashion to "who wants to be a millionaire?"'s tiered scoring, so you don't drop too far.

if a player rolls a number that meets the requirements of a card, is s/he forced to play it? the player may want to use a "Roll Again" token if s/he rolled an 5, when s/he's trying for a 4.

if a player does not have enough dice to complete the flight, is s/he allowed to continue to play? for example, i lay out 3 7's. on the first roll, i get 2, 2, and 3. these dice can match 1 of the 7's, but i no longer have enough dice for the next 2 7's (assuming i have no bonus tokens). am i allowed to continue in an attempt to complete the second stunt to earn a bonus token?

for trading cards, the rules say that the player draws "up to 3 cards." does this mean that s/he can draw less than 3, if s/he desires? this comes is important in the free flight portion, as "each traded card no costs a victory point."

any light you can shed is appreciated.

tofu
 
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Brian Heckathorn
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Quote:
i had also originally thought that filing a flight plan was required to attempt a flight, but after re-reading the directions today, "The Flight" seems to be a separate thing.

the rules say that a player must "Trade cards" or "File a flight plan." Both of these sections are highlighted, followed by a section that says "The flight" which is also highlighted. Each section title also has a differently colored bullet, furthering my belief that "The flight" section is separate from the previous two. the only exception to this, of course, is the first flight.


I sat here and stared at the rules for a bit and pondered a bit on whether the flight was a universal step taken after either the "Trade cards" or the "File a flight plan" step. I'm pretty sure I was correct in my thought that the flight is part of the "File a flight plan" choice. The first line of the rules under "File a flight plan" reads, "First, you play the appropriate cards from your hand;" This is followed by subsections on how to play 3 cards or 1 card. The bullets I believe are misleading, but the use of the word "First" implies there are subsequent steps in the "File a flight plan" option. The second step being the flight. If you haven't declared a flight plan (by playing three new cards or modifying one -which may even be one that was previously declared by another player- by playing one card, it doesn't make sense that you would fly one.

Quote:
about the arrows on the score card, if you land them, does this mean that you get an automatic bump to the next spot?


I think you answered your own question here. If it's not in the rules I'd say "officially" the answer is "No," but you may make that a rules variant.

Quote:
if a player rolls a number that meets the requirements of a card, is s/he forced to play it? the player may want to use a "Roll Again" token if s/he rolled an 5, when s/he's trying for a 4.


I think if you have no bonus chips to "Roll Again" then you have to play the dice on one of your cards. If you choose to roll again you risk failure in your flight plan, but I think it is allowed. After reading the section on how to use your bonus chips, it makes no stipulation on the "Roll Again" only being usable after a failure roll.

Quote:
if a player does not have enough dice to complete the flight, is s/he allowed to continue to play? for example, i lay out 3 7's. on the first roll, i get 2, 2, and 3. these dice can match 1 of the 7's, but i no longer have enough dice for the next 2 7's (assuming i have no bonus tokens). am i allowed to continue in an attempt to complete the second stunt to earn a bonus token?


Yes, you should continue to the second die-rolling round. Follow the rules for that round to determine what to do. My interpretation is that if you succeed with round two you will have to prematurely end the flight, netting you a bonus chip but no victory points (your best case scenario in this example). Otherwise, if you fail to meet or beat one of you two remaining cards, your flight ends as a failure and you get neither victory points nor a bonus chip.

Quote:
for trading cards, the rules say that the player draws "up to 3 cards." does this mean that s/he can draw less than 3, if s/he desires? this comes is important in the free flight portion, as "each traded card no costs a victory point."


Yes. You can draw less than three. At least that's how I usually interpret "up to X".

If anyone else has any thoughts or corrections to my response, please post them. I'm reasonably confident I understand the rules correctly, but arguements could be made for some differences due to the formating and less-than-explicit nature of the rulebook.
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Bernd Dietrich
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Sartredes wrote:
Quote:
i had also originally thought that filing a flight plan was required to attempt a flight, but after re-reading the directions today, "The Flight" seems to be a separate thing.

the rules say that a player must "Trade cards" or "File a flight plan." Both of these sections are highlighted, followed by a section that says "The flight" which is also highlighted. Each section title also has a differently colored bullet, furthering my belief that "The flight" section is separate from the previous two. the only exception to this, of course, is the first flight.


I sat here and stared at the rules for a bit and pondered a bit on whether the flight was a universal step taken after either the "Trade cards" or the "File a flight plan" step. I'm pretty sure I was correct in my thought that the flight is part of the "File a flight plan" choice. The first line of the rules under "File a flight plan" reads, "First, you play the appropriate cards from your hand;" This is followed by subsections on how to play 3 cards or 1 card. The bullets I believe are misleading, but the use of the word "First" implies there are subsequent steps in the "File a flight plan" option. The second step being the flight. If you haven't declared a flight plan (by playing three new cards or modifying one -which may even be one that was previously declared by another player- by playing one card, it doesn't make sense that you would fly one.


A: Your are right Brian. On your turn, you have two choices: Trade cards or perform a flight (the first step of performing a flight is to play your flight-plan, either 1 or 3 cards).

Quote:
about the arrows on the score card, if you land them, does this mean that you get an automatic bump to the next spot?


I think you answered your own question here. If it's not in the rules I'd say "officially" the answer is "No," but you may make that a rules variant.[/q]

A: Again you are right Brian, those arrows are printed to give a clear view where to go ;-)

Quote:
if a player rolls a number that meets the requirements of a card, is s/he forced to play it? the player may want to use a "Roll Again" token if s/he rolled an 5, when s/he's trying for a 4.


I think if you have no bonus chips to "Roll Again" then you have to play the dice on one of your cards. If you choose to roll again you risk failure in your flight plan, but I think it is allowed. After reading the section on how to use your bonus chips, it makes no stipulation on the "Roll Again" only being usable after a failure roll.[/q]

A: That will depend much on the concrete situation and the personal taste. During our testgames I never faced a situation in which I decided to reroll the dice.

Quote:
if a player does not have enough dice to complete the flight, is s/he allowed to continue to play? for example, i lay out 3 7's. on the first roll, i get 2, 2, and 3. these dice can match 1 of the 7's, but i no longer have enough dice for the next 2 7's (assuming i have no bonus tokens). am i allowed to continue in an attempt to complete the second stunt to earn a bonus token?


Yes, you should continue to the second die-rolling round. Follow the rules for that round to determine what to do. My interpretation is that if you succeed with round two you will have to prematurely end the flight, netting you a bonus chip but no victory points (your best case scenario in this example). Otherwise, if you fail to meet or beat one of you two remaining cards, your flight ends as a failure and you get neither victory points nor a bonus chip.[/q]

A: Yeah, that's right. At least the player had a chance to gain 1 bonus-chip by completing the second stunt.

Quote:
for trading cards, the rules say that the player draws "up to 3 cards." does this mean that s/he can draw less than 3, if s/he desires? this comes is important in the free flight portion, as "each traded card no costs a victory point."


Yes. You can draw less than three. At least that's how I usually interpret "up to X".[/q]

A: And again, this is absolutely correct.

If anyone else has any thoughts or corrections to my response, please post them. I'm reasonably confident I understand the rules correctly, but arguements could be made for some differences due to the formating and less-than-explicit nature of the rulebook.[/q]


Hope that helps and all the best from germany.
Bernd
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Philip Hwang
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my thanks to you both, brian & bernd
 
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Christopher DeFrisco
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Are you forced to fly the flight plan that you just updated/created?

Scenario: You have already completed a flight on Rubber Duck. On your next turn you upgrade one of the flight cards on the Rubber Duck plan to a 12, which creates an exteremly difficult flight plan to achieve for the other players. After updating that flight plan, you proceed to attempt to fly the Red Rooster (on that same turn) instead of the Rubber Duck.

The other night, both my son and I decided it would be a nice tactic to include in the game play. We decided we would start playing that way, even if the rules indicated otherwise.



 
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Brian Heckathorn
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Quote:
Are you forced to fly the flight plan that you just updated/created?

Scenario: You have already completed a flight on Rubber Duck. On your next turn you upgrade one of the flight cards on the Rubber Duck plan to a 12, which creates an exteremly difficult flight plan to achieve for the other players. After updating that flight plan, you proceed to attempt to fly the Red Rooster (on that same turn) instead of the Rubber Duck.

The other night, both my son and I decided it would be a nice tactic to include in the game play. We decided we would start playing that way, even if the rules indicated otherwise.


Interesting.

The rules do not explicitly say. My opinion would be that you should have to fly the flight plan that you just filed (i.e. laid cards on). Flying a flight plan that was filed by someone else doesn't seem that it would logically follow the theme (if a pilot tried to fly a different flight plan than filed these days they'd probably be escorted home by F-15's and the pilot would be in deep doo-doo surprise). Also because the flight is a part of declaring the flight plan option, it seems the flight would be linked to the first part (the cards laid while filing a plan).
 
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Christopher DeFrisco
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Quote:
My opinion would be that you should have to fly the flight plan that you just filed

I think I agree with you on the intention of the rules. If we get enough play time in on this game we'll try both.

Thanks!
 
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Randy Cox
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cdefrisco wrote:
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My opinion would be that you should have to fly the flight plan that you just filed

I think I agree with you on the intention of the rules. If we get enough play time in on this game we'll try both.

Thanks!

I was thinking this would be a good strategy. Make the future stunt pilots do harder tricks than you had to. It would be a double-edged sword. You make it tougher for them, but if they succede, they score more points than you did.
 
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Bernd Dietrich
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cdefrisco wrote:
Are you forced to fly the flight plan that you just updated/created?

Scenario: You have already completed a flight on Rubber Duck. On your next turn you upgrade one of the flight cards on the Rubber Duck plan to a 12, which creates an exteremly difficult flight plan to achieve for the other players. After updating that flight plan, you proceed to attempt to fly the Red Rooster (on that same turn) instead of the Rubber Duck.

The other night, both my son and I decided it would be a nice tactic to include in the game play. We decided we would start playing that way, even if the rules indicated otherwise.


That's really interesting, I mean, hey it's a flight-plan - it's your flight-plan!
I just try to imagine the face of the control tower operator. How much time do you have to clearify the situation that your airplane is not on it's declared way before the next 2 available F-15s are on your back?
Okay, just kidding.
Your question is really interesting. It indicates some nice tactical aspects. But the nature or better the sense of the game is at this point that you have to perform the flight you just revealed (3 cards) or upgraded (1 card). But on the other hand, play it like it suits you best.
Hope that helps and all the best from germany
Bernd
 
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George Stewart
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Has anyone got a link to these rules as the old link does not work
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