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Subject: Jokers - Forced to use? rss

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soulblight
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Tonight in a shootout I had a 10 stud and drew 5 threes, 2 sevens, 2 eights, and a joker.
I discarded the sevens, eights, and the joker for a 5 of a kind.

The other player pointed out that I must use the joker and can not chose to discard it, as on page 9 of the rulebook it reads:

"Jokers are only useful for pulls and draw hands. When you have a joker in one of these cases, you must choose its suit and value."

Is it indeed the case that if the joker comes up in our initial draw that we must use it as part of the shootout hand?
I suppose that would be fair, otherwise it could be cycled for a future shootout.
 
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Duane Banzon
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I believe so. I've been doing it to just end up with pairs and it saddens me, but that's the luck of the draw.
 
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Gordon Watson
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I thought that the way it worked was that if you drew a Joker in a low ball hand you would have to use it, as you only have the 5 cards, so in that case you would lose it to boot-hill.

In a shoot-out draw hand you would only lose it if you actually used it and you are not forced to use it in your draw hand if you draw sufficient other cards so that it doesn't need to be included and you choose not to.
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Geoff Thomas
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You do not have to include a Joker in a draw hand (unless you only have 5 cards with no draw). You can discard it when you use draw bullets or not include it if you have more than 5 cards.

There's no rule that specifically mentions this but the rule you're pointing out to is for when you reveal the Joker in a draw hand or pull hand i.e. once you've chosen your 5 cards.
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So it goes.
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Shillington
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AdmiralGT wrote:
You do not have to include a Joker in a draw hand (unless you only have 5 cards with no draw). You can discard it when you use draw bullets or not include it if you have more than 5 cards.

There's no rule that specifically mentions this but the rule you're pointing out to is for when you reveal the Joker in a draw hand or pull hand i.e. once you've chosen your 5 cards.


Geoff is correct. You don't have to use it unless you only drew 5 cards or you pulled it for a hex/gadget in which case you have no choice but to use it. Its completely fine to do as you did since you already had a 5 of a kind.
 
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soulblight
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Ok thanks everyone, that is how I had been assuming it worked.

I had difficulty reasoning against the wording in the rulebook.
I think I'll search for this on the AEG forums and if it's not there I'll post the question more succinctly.
 
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Epimer
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troybowers wrote:
AdmiralGT wrote:
You do not have to include a Joker in a draw hand (unless you only have 5 cards with no draw). You can discard it when you use draw bullets or not include it if you have more than 5 cards.

There's no rule that specifically mentions this but the rule you're pointing out to is for when you reveal the Joker in a draw hand or pull hand i.e. once you've chosen your 5 cards.


Geoff is correct. You don't have to use it unless you only drew 5 cards or you pulled it for a hex/gadget in which case you have no choice but to use it. Its completely fine to do as you did since you already had a 5 of a kind.


The wording doesn't imply that, though.

"Jokers are only useful for pulls and draw hands. When you have a joker in one of these cases, you must choose its suit and value."

Choosing suit and value doesn't mean it gets played. You can say it's a Jack of Hearts and then discard it. Nothing in the literal wording given there goes against that.
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fred De paris
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Havé you to play a joker from your draw , in the poker phase of the shootout ?
NO,
and if you dont play it, you dont ace your joker, you have to make a 5 card poker hand no more
For the case of the 5 of a kind it world he a good idee, if possible, to play it for the 5th Color and dont sheat if your 4 other cards are different
 
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Simon C
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Epimer wrote:
troybowers wrote:
AdmiralGT wrote:
You do not have to include a Joker in a draw hand (unless you only have 5 cards with no draw). You can discard it when you use draw bullets or not include it if you have more than 5 cards.

There's no rule that specifically mentions this but the rule you're pointing out to is for when you reveal the Joker in a draw hand or pull hand i.e. once you've chosen your 5 cards.


Geoff is correct. You don't have to use it unless you only drew 5 cards or you pulled it for a hex/gadget in which case you have no choice but to use it. Its completely fine to do as you did since you already had a 5 of a kind.


The wording doesn't imply that, though.

"Jokers are only useful for pulls and draw hands. When you have a joker in one of these cases, you must choose its suit and value."

Choosing suit and value doesn't mean it gets played. You can say it's a Jack of Hearts and then discard it. Nothing in the literal wording given there goes against that.


Your draw hand is the five card hand that you reveal; it does not include any cards that you draw and discard as part of stud/draw bonuses. So discarding your Joker will mean it's not a part of your draw hand, and you don't need to declare it or ace it.
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Pixxel Wizzard
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So, if I understand correctly, you are forced to use and then ace your joker if you pull it in the gambling phase? If so, that totally sucks and greatly reduces the value of this card, imo.
 
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Stephen Wales
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Yes, that's correct. If you pull a Joker during lowball, you set its value and then ace it.

That has always been the risk of Jokers. I've lost both in lowball in more games than I can count.

I've also had them save the day in Shootouts too. Like everything else in Doomtown, it's a gamble.
 
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David Boeren
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I'm just not really getting this perspective. It's a card game. What you draw is random. Drawing your Joker when you didn't want to is no different than not drawing the poker hand you wanted. It doesn't devalue the Joker in any way.
 
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soulblight
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pinkled5 wrote:
So, if I understand correctly, you are forced to use and then ace your joker if you pull it in the gambling phase? If so, that totally sucks and greatly reduces the value of this card, imo.


You also have to ace it if you pull it for a Skill Check.
 
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mplain
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AussieScum wrote:
Yes, that's correct. If you pull a Joker during lowball, you set its value and then ace it.

That has always been the risk of Jokers. I've lost both in lowball in more games than I can count.

I've also had them save the day in Shootouts too. Like everything else in Doomtown, it's a gamble.

If you reveal two jokers during the gambling phase, you probably win lowball. So you included two cards in your deck that gave you +2 gr for no effort, and then were gone from your deck. It's an absolutely positive net value.

The only time when you don't want to see Jokers is when you draw them at Sundown. But then again, the total benefit of having jokers in lowball and shootouts is much greater on average than the loss you incur by drawing them, if your deck ever plans to shoot (i.e. not Landslide).
 
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