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Subject: So I think I am "in the system" now rss

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Scott Russell
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I am chaperoning a field trip that my son is going on in May that involves camping. The school now has a rule that chaperones have to be cleared through an agency that requires fingerprinting.

So, to anyone that was planning to invite me along on an illegal venture, I apologize, but will have to pass.

I'm one of the rare libertarians that isn't hung up on privacy, but I am curious, if I did care, should I see this as an invasion?

Do you collectively think this is overstepping? The camping rules are set up so that chaperones can only share a tent with their child already. Also, I suspect that it would have been easy to find someone that looked a little like me to go give their fingerprints instead if I had had any nefarious plans (or history). I had to show a driver's license, but it's a pretty small picture and I now have a beard and have lost weight anyway. To me, this is window dressing (and a bit annoying because it's $68 [that's a couple games] and I think only good for a year anyway).
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Boaty McBoatface
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Fingerprinting, yes background checks no.
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Chad Ellis
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CORI checks are pretty common for situations involving kids and adults, but getting fingerprinted seems unnecessary. I also think that if an organization wants to check your prints against an existing database that's very different than adding your prints to a database so you can be part of a wide range of searches in the future. The former doesn't strike me as too big an intrusion, but the latter does.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
CORI checks are pretty common for situations involving kids and adults, but getting fingerprinted seems unnecessary. I also think that if an organization wants to check your prints against an existing database that's very different than adding your prints to a database so you can be part of a wide range of searches in the future. The former doesn't strike me as too big an intrusion, but the latter does.


And I will bet money that it's always the latter. There is no way they are simply throwing the fingerprints out when they're done checking them against known suspects. Which is what they should do if you submit to a voluntary background check for something like this and subsequently clear it.
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Scott Russell
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
CORI checks are pretty common for situations involving kids and adults, but getting fingerprinted seems unnecessary. I also think that if an organization wants to check your prints against an existing database that's very different than adding your prints to a database so you can be part of a wide range of searches in the future. The former doesn't strike me as too big an intrusion, but the latter does.


I agree that's how they should be used (compared and discarded) assuming it makes sense at all, but I know enough about computers to know nothing ever really goes away...

Assuming the virtual images do linger in a database somewhere, have my rights been violated?

Also, no one has commented on how this is really just window dressing. I am pretty sure I could have sent in anyone ~6 foot tall with my license and no one would have known. Any thoughts on that?

Also, for hockey team manager, I had a background check that consisted of giving them my social security number, I think (been a few years, it might have been driver's license number). In that case, had I wanted to, I am pretty sure I could have gotten away with a fake one.

So, my take is it's more about liability than any real attempt to prevent contact between kids and potential predators.
 
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Chris Binkowski
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This thread makes me wonder what kind of fingerprint counterfeiting tech exists.
 
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I see you...
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I imagine the fingerprinting is because the lawyers told them that this will provide them with extra protection from lawsuits in case something happens. I assume since your paying the $68, they don't have the eat the cost, and thus are not out anything.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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I would rather have my fingerprints taken a thousand times than allow one child to be raped, but then I am not a...
 
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Steve Rogers
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galad2003 wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Usually finger printing goes hand in hand with the back ground check as a super sure way they are doing a back ground on the right person. I would assume they are doing both.


I regularly run background checks on volunteers working with young people, which is a requirement of every insurance company we've worked with, but requiring fingerprinting is a little over the top. There are various levels of background checks I can run -- I have never been asked to get someone's fingerprints.

And this is just to chaperone a school trip? That's ridiculous.

Cui bono?


I have been finger printed for security clearance stuff. A field trip is way over the top



When a recent thread provides an example of a teacher sending home permission slips about eating an Oreo...should we be surprised?
 
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Stephen Rost
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Drew1365 wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
To me, this is window dressing (and a bit annoying because it's $68 [that's a couple games] and I think only good for a year anyway).


I think you just put your finger on it. Fingerprinting in this situation seems like a meaningless gesture when background checks would be faster and better, . . . but a lot of regulations are more about making money for connected agencies than about doing anything useful.



When I was in an education licencing program over the course of several years, I had my fingerprints taken about 2 times and I've submitted to a limited background check about 4 times at $40 a pop. Add to that training such as CPR, suicide prevention and TB physical checks and it certainly starts to add up for a cash-starved student.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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Fingerprinting is a scam to collect fees (99% joke)

I became a substitute teacher and had to get fingerprints for that certificate, entered a teaching certification program and had to be fingerprinted for that and when I got my actual teaching certificate I had to be fingerprinted again...then for some odd reason my actual teacging certificate has to be renewed after exactly one year of full time teaching...no further qualifications or paperwork other than the online payment...It feels like a Nigerian prince scam.
 
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James King
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qzhdad wrote:
I am chaperoning a field trip that my son is going on in May that involves camping. The school now has a rule that chaperones have to be cleared through an agency that requires fingerprinting.

So, to anyone that was planning to invite me along on an illegal venture, I apologize, but will have to pass.

I'm one of the rare libertarians that isn't hung up on privacy, but I am curious, if I did care, should I see this as an invasion?

Do you collectively think this is overstepping? The camping rules are set up so that chaperones can only share a tent with their child already. Also, I suspect that it would have been easy to find someone that looked a little like me to go give their fingerprints instead if I had had any nefarious plans (or history). I had to show a driver's license, but it's a pretty small picture and I now have a beard and have lost weight anyway. To me, this is window dressing (and a bit annoying because it's $68 [that's a couple games] and I think only good for a year anyway).

No, it's not over-stepping. It's called accountability in terms of reasonably fulfilling a modicum of assurance to parents that the chaperones are trustworthy.


 
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Lee Fisher
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New PA state law requires background checks for all volunteers with kids. I guess there is a way you can get out of the FBI/fingerprinting part if you lived in the state for 10 years, etc.

Thanks Penn State.
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lfisher wrote:
New PA state law requires background checks for all volunteers with kids. I guess there is a way you can get out of the FBI/fingerprinting part if you lived in the state for 10 years, etc.

Thanks Penn State.


And employees of the state as well. As we are quite aware at this point. It's more than a little insulting when you are a long time employee of the state and don't even work with anyone under 18.
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