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Subject: I wonder how they'll respond rss

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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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So, I figured since the core box contents were kind of insulting (Minis aside, those are nice), I'd approach FFGs customer service to help me out here:

"Good day!

I've recently purchased the Star Wars: Armada coreset and, to my dismay, found that my box only came with half the dice it was supposed to (3 red, blue and black ones each instead of the obviously intended 6 each). Fortunately this is only the first (or maybe second?) time that this has happened to me with your products, which is a great track record, given that I've bought literally thousands of Euro's worth of FFG products since the original Doom: TBG.

(I also believe that I'm missing half the damage cards, the second set of the non-unique upgrades and a maneuver tool, but the game is still playable like this so this might be intended)



My Proof of Purchase chit number is:
(omitted)

Please deliver the dice (and any other components that were missing from my 80€ copy of the game) to:
(address omitted)

I hope they'll arrive before my 160€ preorder of Wave 1 so I can enjoy this game the way it was meant to be.

(I approached you because it was an English-version box and I wasn't certain whether Heidelberger Spieleverlag handles missing pieces for US-imports)

Have a nice day,
(name omitted)"

I wonder what they'll say, and no, I'm not going to buy one of their goddamn dice packs, forget it.

(Or more accurately, I'll probably buy one because I kinda foresee 9 dice each being necessary for two players, but I'll only do it if they send me my missing dice first)
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Michael Ptak
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They'll point out that the box contents in the packaging do say that you're supposed to have 3 of each kind of dice.
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Derry Salewski
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They'll have a good laugh at you.

And then send you a polite response.

Then laugh at you some more.

Then probably laugh at you some more.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Unfortunately, the rules show that I'm not.

At any rate, they might just pick up on the fact that as a regular customer of ten years who's able and willing to spend much more money, they'd be better off not trying to squeeze me for 10 bucks when it's a fucking slap in the face.

You can take that slap, it's your prerogative, but I think it's a disgrace and for 80€, I at least demand a playable game.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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scifiantihero wrote:
They'll have a good laugh at you.

And then send you a polite response.

Then laugh at you some more.

Then probably laugh at you some more.


Perhaps, if they think that getting a playable game is a laughable thing to ask for, of course if they're that far gone they can forget me ever buying another damn thing from them.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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starfleetdroid wrote:
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Unfortunately, the rules show that I'm not.

At any rate, they might just pick up on the fact that as a regular customer of ten years who's able and willing to spend much more money, they'd be better off not trying to squeeze me for 10 bucks when it's a fucking slap in the face.

You can take that slap, it's your prerogative, but I think it's a disgrace and for 80€, I at least demand a playable game.


As much as I agree with you unfortunately you are but one customer. You not buying their games will affect FFG's bottom line by about .00000000001% and they will treat you accordingly.

True, they don't need me, I get that, but unless you tell them when they're going too far, you can't expect them to reverse course on bad decisions.
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Derry Salewski
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So, you claiming you are unable to read and unable to remember things for ten seconds while at the same time remembering how much you've spent for ten years is supposed to elicit some kind of sympathy from . . . them? Certainly not us, I hope.

"ffg shipped a game with the number of dice you need to play, but less than is super convenient" is not exactly news.

Maybe they'll respond to your . . . whatever it is (sarcasm? parody?) with free stuff. Probably would set a bad precedent though.

ffg has been nothing but helpful to me over the years. I wouldn't pick this as a place to make a nasty, public, sarcastic stand.

You have, apparently.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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scifiantihero wrote:
So, you claiming you are unable to read and unable to remember things for ten seconds while at the same time remembering how much you've spent for ten years is supposed to elicit some kind of sympathy from . . . them? Certainly not us, I hope.

"ffg shipped a game with the number of dice you need to play, but less than is super convenient" is not exactly news.

Maybe they'll respond to your . . . whatever it is (sarcasm? parody?) with free stuff. Probably would set a bad precedent though.

ffg has been nothing but helpful to me over the years. I wouldn't pick this as a place to make a nasty, public, sarcastic stand.

You have, apparently.


Ah, so I owe them loyalty because they've sold me games, but they don't owe me the same because I bought them from them?
So they were helpful, I assume this was when you were delivered games with missing or broken components? That's not being nice, that's doing the thing you're paying them to do!
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Derry Salewski
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
So, you claiming you are unable to read and unable to remember things for ten seconds while at the same time remembering how much you've spent for ten years is supposed to elicit some kind of sympathy from . . . them? Certainly not us, I hope.

"ffg shipped a game with the number of dice you need to play, but less than is super convenient" is not exactly news.

Maybe they'll respond to your . . . whatever it is (sarcasm? parody?) with free stuff. Probably would set a bad precedent though.

ffg has been nothing but helpful to me over the years. I wouldn't pick this as a place to make a nasty, public, sarcastic stand.

You have, apparently.


Ah, so I owe them loyalty because they've sold me games, but they don't owe me the same because I bought them from them?
So they were helpful, I assume this was when you were delivered games with missing or broken components? That's not being nice, that's doing the thing you're paying them to do!


they gave me crew cards from the tantive IV that had been stolen by the person who returned to amazon. Way out of their way and nothing they had to do.

(And replace any damaged component immediately.)

What is the issue. Did you actually find somewhere on the box or rulebook that says it comes with 18 dice? Is that a german misprint or something?

Or are you just calling having to write down a die and reroll one "unplayble" as opposed to the much less hyperbolic "inconvenient."
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You might ask them why they gave 3 blue dice when 4 are needed for X-Wing attacks or when Howlrunner bumps up TIEs to 4 dice, but that's about it.

It's funny that on the one hand FFG wants to create an image of a company which cares for it's customers with accessibility to the CEO, their testing of games before release and their replacement of broken or lost game components.

Yet on the other hand they are known for being cheap with their dice in core sets to try to make you buy dice packs (Armada, X-Wing, Imperial Assault).

I guess they are just going more corporate as they get bigger. I expect them to get meaner and more money hungry as time goes on. It's just the way things happen in our economy. At one point in time GW was considered affordable and even had a sense of humour in the Rogue Trader days.
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Jake Rose
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They did send me a die for my 2nd Edition Battlelore game. I wrote them and told them (honestly) I dropped one and before I could snag it, one of my dogs got it and chewed it up. I even attached a picture of the guilty culprit not looking appropriately remorseful. I offered to pay for a replacement die and shipping.

They sent me a nice note and mailed out a replacement with no cost to me.

We now roll the dice in a box lid...

Here is the guilty party.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Yes, that is nice (although actually Amazon WOULD have had to replace them anyway, and they'd gone back to FFG, so they just cut out the middle man really).

Yes, I'm being hyperbolic, but the fact remains that they made the choice to inconvenience us on an expensive product for the sole reason of getting us to spend more money, they could have put those dice in there (enough for two players, in fact), they could have raised the price of the core box (although I find it very hard to believe that they're not making good money off every SWA box, but ok, I don't know how they calculate) and given you a complete core set. Instead they sell you the game as it is now and immediately announce that, oh, by the way, there's also more stuff to buy, because they know as well as you do that everyone who buys into the game is going to buy one of those damn dice packs. Instead of selling the game for 10$ more, they sell it just a bit cheaper and bank on you not complaining when you notice how annoying it is once you've got it.
I'm not accusing them of a crime or anything, but it's an underhanded way to raise the price even higher when they could have just been open about it.

And no, I'm not going to go hungry because of 10€ more or less, this is about a company that I'm a fan of using tricks that I'm not cool with to squeeze more money out of me when all I want is for them to tell me what I get - and then actually give it to me for the money I pay.
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Ben Thornton
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I am really failing to see the issue in not receiving more dice. I don't expect to receive dice when I buy another unit for my Warhammer armies. You have received enough components to play the game, you can't argue that fact. If you want more dice. Buy them.
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Derry Salewski
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Amazon had already given me a partial refund.

I mean, do you play x-wing? They did the exact same thing then. Which is why this may seem a silly complaint to some of us. It's pretty old news.

Yes, some of us would rather just buy a 105 dollar core set. Or a 60 dollar "complete" lcg base game.

But they have a way that they price and market the core game experience to people. And then people who want to have ultimate convenience or go hardcore can buy more.

I am sure they're making money, but I don't think employees there make a ton. it's not like this is apple who magically can't figure out how sd cards work . . .
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Benzy311 wrote:
I am really failing to see the issue in not receiving more dice. I don't expect to receive dice when I buy another unit for my Warhammer armies. You have received enough components to play the game, you can't argue that fact. If you want more dice. Buy them.

Of course, GW didn't design their games with special dice that you can ONLY buy from them, last time I checked.

starfleetdroid wrote:
I think it is an unfortunate truth that companies are in business to make money, not earn customer loyalty soblue

Pride in product quality and customer satisfaction seems to have ended in the new age unfortunately.

I don't object to them making money (it's not like I go to work because I'm bored), I don't object to attempts to make more money, but unless you speak up when your personal line is crossed, you can't expect them to stop and reconsider.

It's simple really, I own most of their games, I would like to continue buying more of their games in the future because I like most of their games. I will not do so if I feel that they're not offering fair deals (that is fair, not "superamazing"), part of a fair deal is that when I buy a product, I don't want them to take out parts of it and sell them extra (And it's interesting how this behaviour is considered shitty when EA does it, but perfectly OK when a board game company does it).
Anyone who's cool with that, go ahead and defend the practice, just don't be surprised when the great new FFG line of 2016 is coming with even more hidden hooks.
It happened in the video games industry, it's happening with FFG right now, feel free to watch it happen.
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Derry Salewski
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Benzy311 wrote:
I am really failing to see the issue in not receiving more dice. I don't expect to receive dice when I buy another unit for my Warhammer armies. You have received enough components to play the game, you can't argue that fact. If you want more dice. Buy them.

Of course, GW didn't design their games with special dice that you can ONLY buy from them, last time I checked.



Scatter dice, actually.
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jakecarol wrote:
They did send me a die for my 2nd Edition Battlelore game. I wrote them and told them (honestly) I dropped one and before I could snag it, one of my dogs got it and chewed it up. I even attached a picture of the guilty culprit not looking appropriately remorseful. I offered to pay for a replacement die and shipping.

They sent me a nice note and mailed out a replacement with no cost to me.

We now roll the dice in a box lid...

Here is the guilty party.

Spoiler (click to reveal)


That's hillarious.

My dog actually ate a secret objective card from Twilight Imperium and FFG replaced it-- when they did they also gave me updated prints of all the cards that had errata.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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scifiantihero wrote:
Amazon had already given me a partial refund.

I mean, do you play x-wing? They did the exact same thing then. Which is why this may seem a silly complaint to some of us. It's pretty old news.

Yes, some of us would rather just buy a 105 dollar core set. Or a 60 dollar "complete" lcg base game.

But they have a way that they price and market the core game experience to people. And then people who want to have ultimate convenience or go hardcore can buy more.

I am sure they're making money, but I don't think employees there make a ton. it's not like this is apple who magically can't figure out how sd cards work . . .


I play X-Wing, I originally bought into the game for about 300€ (I think that was around Wave 2), I've bought everything they came out with for the system since then (Except Scum, for now), usually in multiples, and I didn't mind buying 2 core sets because, for one, they were less than half of the SWA core, and for another it was well known.
Part of the promise for SWA (one that's still being claimed all across this forum) was that 2 core sets wouldn't be necessary for SWA, part of why I grudgingly accepted the higher price of SWA (even though the additional plastic doesn't really justify a 2.5 price multiplier) was that it was supposed to be completely playable out of the box. But no, they had to do it again!
And it's not even like the dice pack is immediately available, no, if you want to play the game without that constant annoyance, you need the second core that you supposedly aren't supposed to need this time around.

Edit: Oh and by the way, I've recommended X-Wing often and vigorously, and especially come down in favour of it in comparison to Attack Wing, specifically because I felt that FFG's handling of X-Wing was a lot fairer (still pricey, but fairer) than what Wizkids did.

Sell me a complete product, be open about what I'm paying for (and how much I'm *really* going to have to pay), give me the means to make an informed decision and not feel played, that is ALL I ask.
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I find it amazing that the Armada dice pack gets you 3 more dice for the same price as the one for X-Wing. Seems like they would have jacked the price up on that too
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FFG Star Wars dice app. Costs less than any dice pack and has unlimited dice for all their Star Wars IP.
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If it really upsets you that much, and you just have to roll the right amount of dice, then use D6 and have a table.

Eg
1-3 = Miss
4-5 = Hit
6 = Crit hit
 
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Well, while I definitely respect having your own lines and standing up when they're crossed, I own one Core and my friends who play each also have one Core. When we play, not only do we get 300pt battles (current tournament standard), we also never have dice issues.

Frankly, I found it much more irksome in X-Wing, where you were constantly having to grab an extra attack dice here, extra defense dice there, since ships shoot a lot and you have to roll defense, too. The dice that you inevitable share have to change hands a lot. In Armada, you just need the extra blue if there's a lot of fighter attacks going on and, fortunately, they generally happen at the same time so you just leave them out there and you both share. With the exception of Concentrate Fire on the forward hull at close-medium on a VSD, you don't even need more than 3 dice.
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Benzy311 wrote:
If it really upsets you that much, and you just have to roll the right amount of dice, then use D6 and have a table.

Eg
1-3 = Miss
4-5 = Hit
6 = Crit hit


What upsets me aren't the missing dice, it's the attitude behind it "Eh, just cut out parts and sell them extra, they'll buy anything", and besides, if I wanted to play with a CRT, I'd play one of my games with a CRT.

Also the dice are 8-sided, FYI.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: When video game publishers started this kind of crap, there were also a bunch of people saying "oh it doesn't matter", "it's optional", "if you don't like it, don't buy it" etc.
Now that everyone's doing it all the time, because of course people DO end up buying all that "optional" stuff (That's often all but), suddenly everyone's complaining as if it happened overnight. (Of course, some people still suffer from gamer's stockholm syndrome and will defend anything)

Every trick you defend, every time you throw good money after bad, you reinforce that this crap works on you, just remember that as you get less and less product for more and more money, those proceeds don't go into better development or higher salaries for the employees of those companies, you're not helping the developers, you're helping the investors.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Yeah, they went with the laughing/polite solution. Because of course they did.
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Greg C
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Can you repost their response?
 
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