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Subject: ICE recommendations on a deck over 49 cards rss

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Shadow ruxer
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Well, first of all I tried looking around the forums for a similar post, but I failed to find anything other than ones based on agendas.

The rulebook mentions guidelines and recommendations for ICE and agendas, but the ICE recommendation is limited to 17-20 in a 45-49 card deck. My question is to you all What increments should your ICE go up by exceeding 49 cards?

I am thinking roughly 2-3 additional ice per 5 cards, then the required agendas, which in turn leave you only about one too two cards of operations, assests, upgrades etc...

So I ask you, my competing corporations robot What do you think? How many extra ICE should be included beyond a 49 card deck and in what increments?
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Andrew Keddie
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It really depends on what your deck is doing. In a 49-card deck, I've seen (and played with) ICE counts from 6-26. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.
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Shadow ruxer
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Thats true but I guess what I am ultimately trying to figure out is what have you all been most successful with? I can't imagine running a deck with only 6 ICE in it, that virtually gives you no protections from the runner at all

But maybe I am wrong, I do only have the core game and one data pack, and have only recently begun really getting into the game as the core set did not really allow much of any customization.
 
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A deck with 6 ice is usually an Ambush oriented Jinteki deck that concerns itself more with punishing the runner for getting in then actually trying to keep the runner out. Decks with more than 20 ice tend to be HB decks making looking to make good use of cards that benefit from increased ice density, like Accelerated Beta Test.

I'd consider the "standard" amount of ice for a 49 card deck to be about 14 cards, which is a bit less than a third of the deck. When expanding the deck over 49 cards I'd try to keep that proportion similar, so I'd add one or two pieces of ice for every increment of 5 extra cards. If I'm going far above the minimums, however, I might seek to increase the proportion of ice, simply because it's something most decks can't afford not to draw early on and increased numbers would become necessary to compensate for the increase draw variance.
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Andrew Keddie
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sunergy wrote:
If I'm going far above the minimums, however, I might seek to increase the proportion of ice, simply because it's something most decks can't afford not to draw early on and increased numbers would become necessary to compensate for the increase draw variance.

I think that's generally good advice. As an aside, glacier-type decks might also want high ICE density (16+ in 49 cards). And while one of my 6-ICE decks is indeed a Jinteki all-the-traps deck, the other is a short-lived Cerebral Imaging nonsense deck using only 3x Mother Goddess and 3x Excalibur, with 3x Wil-o'-the-wisp for nukign AIs (alas, O&C killed it due to the prevalence of Anarchs and therefore Parasites).
 
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Nushura
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The question you should be asking yourself is...why would I need a deck with more than 49 cards? that will answer how many ICE you need as well.
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Wesley Austin Kinslow
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Nushura wrote:
The question you should be asking yourself is...why would I need a deck with more than 49 cards? that will answer how many ICE you need as well.

Hint: "There are so many neat cards!" is not a reason to run over 49.
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Raf Cordero
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the_shadow447 wrote:

So I ask you, my competing corporations robot What do you think? How many extra ICE should be included beyond a 49 card deck and in what increments?

I can only answer for the one deck I've run with more than 49 cards, but my 54 card Stronger Together deck runs 23 ICE. It's very glacier oriented and hopes to see lots of ICE so my proportion is higher than some of the numbers you might see for a traditional 49 card deck.
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Zak Jarvis
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Well, your sweet-spot for agendas in a 'Government Takeover'/'Punitive Counterstrike' deck is at 59 cards, I reckon.

If you want 'Government Takeover' plus all three-pointers (for striking in the most punitive manner), that rules out 54-card decks. With 49 cards you have an agenda density of 0.122 per card and an agenda point density of 0.429 per card. At a 59-card deck this would be 0.119 agendas per card and 0.407 agenda points per card. Whether or not you are happy with a bit more variance in your card draw is up to you, but given that you might want to kick early agendas back into R&D until you are ready to kill people ('Jackson Howard', 'Rework'), it's maybe not such a stupid idea to play a 59-card deck.
 
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Shadow ruxer
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Thanks for all the feedback, many of the cards I haven't heard of, but now I am understanding how unique your decks can really get, especially with the accumulation of more data packs.
 
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Grish Noren
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My 4th Place Store Champ deck is 54 cards (swept Spags with it, which I'm only noting to say it had stiff competition); and it runs 17 ice:

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/15122/cr4z-3-tr4-madison-...

18 is typically the number people say for a 49 card deck; so if you're just doing a simple regular deck that you haven't tuned for a specific goal, then 19-20 pieces of ice is probably sufficient.

The deck above plans on drawing so many cards that I figured out about where I needed to be exposed to the number of ice I'd want in so many turns and was able to reduce my ice count for a deck that typically would have needed more ice.

So, I'd argue the ice density you need is a function of two things:
1) Access to Ice
2) Need for Ice

If you have easy access to any card in your deck, then you likely need less redundancy in your ice mix and a lower quantity in general. If you have less of a need for ice because you're running a bunch of traps and that's where you plan to spend your money, then you need less.

Every deck probably wants some, just due to the potency of multi-access and the disruptive force of cards like account siphon. But, how long you plan to the game and how fast you'll draw through your deck are things to consider.
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Mychal
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A good standard is usually 40% ice, so 2 more out of every 5 cards added. Like others have said, glacier strategies benefit from a higher ratio, and ambush-spam decks can go much lower than that. There are other exceptions, and you'll begin to feel them out for yourself as you deck build more. But 40% is sort of the baseline.
 
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Zak Jarvis
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An important point to note is that while overall ICE number rules of thumb are useful, not all ICE is created equal!

Again, it depends on the deck in question and your aims, but probably a good rule of thumb is that somewhere between 40% and 70% of your ICE probably ought to be "early game ICE", i.e. ICE that you'd be happy to see in your starting hand. Cheap (ideally not over four credits at most), self-contained (so not positionally-dependent like 'Chum' or 'Marker' for instance) and not giving away Bad Publicity or requiring agendas to rez.

As ever, unless you've got a fiendish plan as to why to deviate from that!
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