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Subject: Europe Engulfed / For the People II / Here I Stand rss

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Bill Herbst
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Well, this is not exactly an original idea for a forum post but I would appreciate some help from the knowledgeable people around here in making this game choice.

I'm going to pick up 2 games from the GMT P500 sale. The first will definitely be Twilight Struggle. The other is what I'm looking for help in deciding.

Europe Engulfed -- I like block games and I like the idea of picking up a large scale WWII game. The price tag is a bit imposing for such a long game. Is it worth buying if I'm most likely to only play the tournament scenario? I have a relatively small house and three kids so I can't realistically leave the game set up for mulitple sessions for the full game. Is it the sort of thing where recording positions for a second session would take 30 minutes or more.

For the People II -- I enjoy card driven games quite a bit. I have played Wilderness War 4 times over the last two years and have also enjoyed We the People and Hannibal. I also own Paths of Glory but haven't been able to get it to the table yet. With Twilight Struggle being my other game in this order, should I get another CDG? I have heard that the rules in this one are particularly complex for a CDG and that it is particulary time consuming. How does it compare to Europe Engulfed in terms of complexity assuming I'm familiar with a few CDGs and block games.

Here I Stand -- This is a little lower on my radar as the subject matter is not something that originally piqued my interest. The reason I am drawn to it somewhat is the potential for a 6 player game. I realize that it is also quite long. What is the rules complexity like compared to the games above?

Lastly, is there any other game that I might be overlooking that would be worth a P500 sale purchase. I am fairly open in my wargaming tastes but I generally tend to shy away from really long games and I have developed a lower tolerance for complex rule systems than I used to have. I own and enjoy games from the simple Euro-influenced (C&C Ancients), to CDGs (Wilderness War), to low-moderate complexity hex and counter (American Revolution series).
 
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Andrew C
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I love Europe Engulfed but it doesn't sound like it will meet your needs.

Check out Clash of Giants II. It is designed by Ted Racier (who designed Paths of Glory among others). It is a single map (double sided for two different battles) and low-mid complexity (maybe 12 pages of rules. I just finished a game and it was VERY fun. It features a random chit activation so is solo-able and has very little down time. It can be completed in one (3-4 hour) session. An excellent game.

I would recommend it over For the People simply to add diversity to your choices (it is shorter and simpler too).
 
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David Brown
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I own and have played all three.

If I could only keep one of the three it would be Europe Engulfed.

In terms of writing the positions down, that is what I am doing at present. My gaming club meets 1st and 3rd Saturday of the month and over the last few sessions two of us have been playing EE, writing positions down at the end of each session. It takes approx 30min, and that includes clearing the game (as you clear an area you write down the units in it). So in effect you are putting the game away as you write position down

We the people - Very good game and what you tell me about games you like you'd probably like this one. I don't think I'm likely to play this again though. The rules are slightly complex and don't seem as easy to follow as other CDG.

Here I Stand - Great game, complex rules but very well written. But because it has a steep rules learning curve and it needs a min of three people, this is unlikely to hit the table again.

Out if the three EE (IMO)is the most solitaire friendly.

It a hard choice you have and if you want my advice I'd say buy all three
 
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Antonio Chavez
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Have you checked the new edition of Blackbeard? It's the one that made me finally enter P500. It seems like a lot of fun, kinda-wargamerish pirate game that you can also play solo. (Of course, once I broke down, I ended up ordering Twilight Struggle, Europe Engulfed, Asia Engulfed, Formula Racing and Battles with the Gringos. I just hope they don't all go to "charge" at the same time).
 
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Allen Doum
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All are fairly complex, so I would say that isn't really a consideration.

EE has a much simpler varient called Blockkreig, to shorten it.

FtP can begin at four different points, and has four stopping points as well. (The one 1865 turn is included in 1864 for scenario purposes.) The complexity is partly due to the designer trying to prevent players from getting aroung the leadership rules. Go with the flow and the game is simpler. In terms of movement and combat, it is straitforward.

All have "sudden death" ending conditions that shorten the game.

In your situation, I would let my lessened interest rule out HIS. Multiple player Wargames have an inherent "kingmaker" problem, that may be important to you (one way or another).
 
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Bill Herbst
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Thanks for the advice, please keep on making suggestions. I should probably clarify what I'm looking for, however. When I say I'm looking to pick up two games from the P500 sale, I'm not looking to preorder these games. I have preordered enough games this year to qualify for the half price sale of instock games (and the Nov. ships apparently qualify).
 
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Phillip Heaton
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Recording block games can be simple, if you and your opponent have digital cameras. Each of you takes pictures of your units on the maps, then save them till next time.

With your first game being Twilight Struggle, it would be hard for me to recommend any card-driven games for your second purchase. That fact that you have, but haven't played Paths of Glory only adds to that.

I can't recommend Here I Stand in any event. It may be billed as a 6 player wargame, but it plays more like two different game happening simultaneously. There is the two player reformation game going on between the Protestant player and the Pope, and there is the war game going on between the other four players. I'll grant you that the Pope has some military actions he can perform, but his game is the reformation. I did not particularly enjoy that aspect of the game.

One other thing to look at is whether the sale covers Worthington Games, which are sold through GMT. If so, you might look at "Clash for a Continent: Battles of the American Revolution and French & Indian War", or "For Honor and Glory: War of 1812 Land and Naval Battles". They play like the Command & Colors system games, but use action points instead of cards to determine what may move and fight. I like them.
 
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Bill Herbst
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Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning strongly against another CDG and I have basically ruled out Here I Stand. The Worthington Games don't qualify for the sale otherwise they would be very tempting.

Right now I'm on the borderline between Europe Engulfed or simple inviting a friend to use my other game slot.

I have lined up someone to play Europe Engulfed with me.
 
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David Brown
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I'm guessing that the offer you are refering too is the 50% discount for P500 buyers.

If that is the case than the more expensive game (Europe Engulfed)makes even more sense. I don't know your financial situation but 50% is a huge saving and I would say worth the risk.

I recently bought the Gamers DAKII as they were having a sale, this is not a game I would have considered at full price but the discount + the £/$ exchange rate made it worth the risk. I don't regret buying and I doubt if I'll see an offer like that again, although I expect it will hit the table less often than Europe Engulfed.

Trust me writing the position down at the end of a session in EE is not a big problem.

David Brown



 
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Jérôme
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Afaik the offer goes for all in-stock games, is EE among those?
 
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Bill Herbst
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I believe I saw on Consim World the the EE and Twilight Struggle reprints qualify.
 
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