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Tide of Iron: Stalingrad» Forums » Rules

Subject: I think we broke Order 227 rss

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Björn Flintberg
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We played the scenario Order No 227. From the setup (mortars can fire from inside building) and the special rules of the scenario (germans can lay smoke with their mortars for advance, while terrain slows down vehicles) it seems clear that the idea is that you should advance quickly with the Germans, die en masse via the well-fortified building firing mortar and MG fire as you approach and in this also clear mines and such.

However, it became utter failure. The collapsed buildings are treated as bombarded hexes and do not block LOS. So what happened was a lineup of Stugs and PIII seven hexes from the building firing and op-firing at any squad daring to pop into LOS before they had a chance.

As the normal range for the anti-tank-crew is 3, and long range is 6, well... 7 is a bad distance. And no advance, just sit there and op-fire the crap out of anything that shows up.

Maybe we played it wrong - or maybe someone forgot that concussive firepower adds +3 range and firepower. The poor sods in the building never stood a chance.

So - for any German player, just line up your tanks outside reach of any Soviet counter and keep hammering or op-fire when you win initiative.

We were thinking of house-ruling that the collapsed buildings still block LOS - then you at least have to move the tanks up to the ridge before they can do their thing.
 
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Hss Hss
Norway
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I haven't played this scenario, but letting your tanks stay put and fire seems like the obvious thing to do for the Germans.
 
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bill jaffe
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it's possible that you happened to find a solution that nobody else has.
a question though did you play as part of the campaign or stand alone?

bill
 
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Willem Boersma
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Do note that in multi-hex buildings, if you put a squad away from the edge of the building, they cannot be seen from outside of the building. Maybe this could make a difference?
 
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Ismael Descolado
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Hummm... Soviets can use the concealed tokens in his anti-tank squad and move to buildings to near the german tanks.

The Soviets have two T-70 tanks (immobilized). If you put the Stugs and Panzers in op-fire, the T-70 can attack german tanks with no counter-attack.

I don't know... I will try in this weekend.




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bill jaffe
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i hope to see some game reports from folks who give this a try.

i will look at it again as well

bill
 
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Nathaniel Beck
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Hss Hss, yes when we played through this, the tanks can cause some serious damage by not moving the first couple of turns and blasting squads in houses with concussive firepower.
 
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Willem Boersma
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Allowing the Russian mortars to be placed and fire from any top level building hex that makes part of Pavlov's House would certainly help to.
 
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Hss Hss
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A double mortar which is out of line of sight helps of course. The special rule is just a trick to have people set-up the mortar there. Which makes no sense of course.

I would use the place mines actions in the two buildings in 42A to have a complete ring of Mines. I would disallow half-hex movement in this scenario. (so that the ring of mines cannot be bypassed). Then, to enter the building, you HAVE to enter the mines with an engineer, remove the mines, then enter the barbed wire, and hopefully remove it too. It takes time, and while in the open, the engineers have no cover. At the same time, all units wanting to enter the building NEEDS to go through that ONE gap in the mines... => mortar can be deadly. If the Russians manage to disrupt engineers BEFORE they can remove mines, it will be very deadly for German troops. But if I don't remember incorrectly, that is difficult due to the number of German engineers.

The tanks makes this a difficult scenario to balance. There are quit a few of them (if I don't remember incorrectly) and they have perfect vision, and a tank has very good firepower versus infantry in buildings. No reasons what so ever to move any. Any Russian infantry in the build can be taken care of easily.

I don't remember if the OP-card which allows (immobile) tanks to be used as MG is in place in this scenario. If it does, I would use them as MG nest instead.

It also depends on what else you managed to pop buy from last round. Giving the Russian one extra T34 for example helps the Russians.

I wonder if 'no units' ever walking into LOS of the German tanks is a viable strategy... Not even a single MG. Not even at set-up. Use concealed troops to guide the Mortars. Then you can fire at the Germans at point blank range when they enter the house.
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Willem Boersma
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Grand Stone wrote:
A double mortar which is out of line of sight helps of course. The special rule is just a trick to have people set-up the mortar there. Which makes no sense of course.

I would use the place mines actions in the two buildings in 42A to have a complete ring of Mines. I would disallow half-hex movement in this scenario. (so that the ring of mines cannot be bypassed). Then, to enter the building, you HAVE to enter the mines with an engineer, remove the mines, then enter the barbed wire, and hopefully remove it too. It takes time, and while in the open, the engineers have no cover. At the same time, all units wanting to enter the building NEEDS to go through that ONE gap in the mines... => mortar can be deadly. If the Russians manage to disrupt engineers BEFORE they can remove mines, it will be very deadly for German troops. But if I don't remember incorrectly, that is difficult due to the number of German engineers.

The tanks makes this a difficult scenario to balance. There are quit a few of them (if I don't remember incorrectly) and they have perfect vision, and a tank has very good firepower versus infantry in buildings. No reasons what so ever to move any. Any Russian infantry in the build can be taken care of easily.

I don't remember if the OP-card which allows (immobile) tanks to be used as MG is in place in this scenario. If it does, I would use them as MG nest instead.

It also depends on what else you managed to pop buy from last round. Giving the Russian one extra T34 for example helps the Russians.

I wonder if 'no units' ever walking into LOS of the German tanks is a viable strategy... Not even a single MG. Not even at set-up. Use concealed troops to guide the Mortars. Then you can fire at the Germans at point blank range when they enter the house.


The half hex movement was a horrible idea many of us tried to dissuade 1a from, but alas. Anyway, i never use it at all. It spoils many a good scenario.
 
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