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Subject: Penny for your thoughts on HBFA post-Clot. [DECK] rss

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I've been an HBFA player for years now. Just won't give the old horse up even when clearly better options like NEH and even RP arise. This is mostly due to my addiction to HB taxing Ice and the flexibility that HB's Ice & Econ offer you when you bring in FA parts. But a tournament deck that once had a >80% win rate sustained over many months has fallen down a bit. And now that Clot is going to come out to help nerf NEH a bit, poor little HBFA is going to get caught up in that tidal wave as well. I've tweaked my build to start to account for Clot a little, so here are my current thoughts:

Corp 2-22-15

Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core Set)

Agenda (11)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
2x Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)

Asset (6)
3x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••

Upgrade (4)
1x Cyberdex Virus Suite (Order and Chaos)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set) ••••• ••••

Operation (9)
1x Archived Memories (Core Set)
3x Biotic Labor (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Peak Efficiency (Up and Over)

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
2x Markus 1.0 (The Source)
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
3x IQ (First Contact)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••
3x Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control)

Sentry (6)
3x Architect (Up and Over)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Ichi 2.0 (Creation and Control)

The Clot response is basically a single CVS with recursion through Jackson and Archived Memories if needed. But the primary strategy is simply playing shell game from a relatively taxing remote that the Runner can't afford to run every turn. Not great, but if that's the worst matchup not horrible either. Alternative would be 2x CVS, but the deckspace is just so tight right now and I'm loath to cut econ or Ice. Also could consider 2x Ash to more directly support the remote-score strategy but the deck is not heavy on long-term econ, in large part because it has a fairly brittle early R&D and HQ where things like Melange are just way too easily popped (CVS obviously suffers from the same issue).

I'd welcome any thoughts here on Clot response, Econ, or Ice. The deck basically plays medium to slow speed and relies on creating 3-4 very strong servers (sometimes archive or remote will be weak). I've even been thinking of switching to ST for fun.
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Dave Kudzma
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I've seen IQ in a few recent HB lists. I'm still not sure why, not that I'm denying any possibilities.

Could you explain that choice?

Edit:

I've never been a big HB player and given the change in the meta (not just clot) I thought I'd explore them more than I had.I've been playing a version of Clicking Hell from DB. Prior to that I played around with something close that used ST. EtF is superior every time IMHO simply on econ.
 
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locusshifter wrote:
I've seen IQ in a few recent HB lists. I'm still not sure why, not that I'm denying any possibilities.

Could you explain that choice?

Edit:

I've never been a big HB player and given the change in the meta (not just clot) I thought I'd explore them more than I had.I've been playing a version of Clicking Hell from DB. Prior to that I played around with something close that used ST. EtF is superior every time IMHO simply on econ.
Bioroid-heavy decks usually lack early stopping Ice, making splashy Runs like Indexing and Siphon very dangerous. They're just leaky early on so any decent stopping Ice is worth considering. This type of build is also very weak to Atman and (God forbid) Double Atman, and in addition to being just a good hard stopper IQ is an absolute nightmare for Atman. It's also decently taxing (more so than Lotus for example) if you run 5 cards in hand, which this type of deck usually does outside of scoring turns. So what it really does is patch up a lot of holes in a single card while still being consistent with the taxing philosophy.
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Shane Ruman
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Even with HB:ETF ability, looks light on cash. The ice is not RP-level expensive but it's not particular cheap either so not sure you'll be able to rez that much of it along with paying to FA out 3 agendas (let's assume you can push one out without FA) that costs net 6 credits each via san-san or biotic. After subtracting those 18 credits (or even 12) not much left over to rez Tollbooths and Ichi 2.0's . God forbid 1 or 2 Adonis get trashed, then it's real troubles. But that's just my thought after a quick look.
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Nick Rice
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I agree with the above poster's comment on econ. I've found Successful Demo to be invaluable in my HB deck.

Re IQ - it's a great card. Beats Yog.0 for fun. You can get a nice discount on its price with a bit of hand management. It's taxing and it ETRs. What more can you ask for?!
 
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Dave Kudzma
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NickRice wrote:
Re IQ - it's a great card. Beats Yog.0 for fun. You can get a nice discount on its price with a bit of hand management. It's taxing and it ETRs. What more can you ask for?!

Yeah, F*** Yog.

Given the popularity of Anarch right now D4v1d is around quite a bit; it's the only reason I question any ice that is 5+ str, even if this one is variable.

I like the idea, and like I said I've been seeing it quite a bit recently, so I'll have to try it for myself.
 
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Benjamin
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Try swapping the Gila Hands for Chronos Project.

Think about it.

You have 8+ credits, a scoring server with SanSan Grid and a Cyberdex Virus Suite on HQ. Runner is PrePaid Kate with one Clone Chip out, no SMCs in the Runner's rig.

Install Chronos Project from hand, advance..

*CLOT* - Kate tutors a Clot with Clone Chip

..rez SanSan, use Cyberdex Virus Suite, advance and score Chronos Project, exile Clot. Fast advance for the rest of the game.
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Brodie
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locusshifter wrote:
NickRice wrote:
Re IQ - it's a great card. Beats Yog.0 for fun. You can get a nice discount on its price with a bit of hand management. It's taxing and it ETRs. What more can you ask for?!

Yeah, F*** Yog.

Given the popularity of Anarch right now D4v1d is around quite a bit; it's the only reason I question any ice that is 5+ str, even if this one is variable.

I like the idea, and like I said I've been seeing it quite a bit recently, so I'll have to try it for myself.

So keep your hand at 4 against D4v1d. That's what I do. HB runs enough econ assets that it's not particularly hard. This is why IQ is so great.
 
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Yeah in HBFA pretty much the only time you can't keep IQ where you want it is when you have to score out an agenda.
 
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So I ditched this concept and went with more of a Next rig, since I think Clot builds are slower and you can score out quicker with Next. But I'm still stuck on how many and which upgrades to play. Right now I'm only playing 1x CVS. I've seen people try out 2x CVS or even pair up with Ash. But I don't know that I love Ash vs. Clot because a lot of those builds have MO too so it's easy to get down on money fast.

What do you think, fellow HBFA players?
 
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Captain Frisk
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AstroLad wrote:
So I ditched this concept and went with more of a Next rig, since I think Clot builds are slower and you can score out quicker with Next. But I'm still stuck on how many and which upgrades to play. Right now I'm only playing 1x CVS. I've seen people try out 2x CVS or even pair up with Ash. But I don't know that I love Ash vs. Clot because a lot of those builds have MO too so it's easy to get down on money fast.

What do you think, fellow HBFA players?


Background, i'm a long time HBFA player, switched to Cheese NBNFA because it was better, and post clot, I've been playing a hybrid deck:

Basically

2x Caprice
2x Daily Business Show - because its awesome
2x Executive Boot Camp - because I hate Leela, and getting NEXT ice online is nice.
2x Ash
3x Biotic (for people not running clot)
3x Jackson

Basically - I try to never advance, and use Biotic to close the game out if necessary.
 
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
AstroLad wrote:
So I ditched this concept and went with more of a Next rig, since I think Clot builds are slower and you can score out quicker with Next. But I'm still stuck on how many and which upgrades to play. Right now I'm only playing 1x CVS. I've seen people try out 2x CVS or even pair up with Ash. But I don't know that I love Ash vs. Clot because a lot of those builds have MO too so it's easy to get down on money fast.

What do you think, fellow HBFA players?


Background, i'm a long time HBFA player, switched to Cheese NBNFA because it was better, and post clot, I've been playing a hybrid deck:

Basically

2x Caprice
2x Daily Business Show - because its awesome
2x Executive Boot Camp - because I hate Leela, and getting NEXT ice online is nice.
2x Ash
3x Biotic (for people not running clot)
3x Jackson

Basically - I try to never advance, and use Biotic to close the game out if necessary.

Do you have Successful Demo in there? I find it's pretty cool w/ Caprice since you can have unsuccessful runs all game.
 
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I do not... No room. I run 3 Adonis, 2 eve, 3 hedges, and the core ident for Econ. I want the asset based Econ so I can bait runs...
 
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