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Subject: [Deck] Ken "Express" Tenma Run Deck - Looking for comments! rss

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Ivan Barker
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Hi all,

This is the first time I'm asking for a build critique, and I'm still fairly new to the game, so please excuse me if I make a mistake somewhere.

This is the Runner deck I am currently playing with (and changing). To me, the heart of the runners is the "run" aspect, that, and I find it very exciting. So this Tenma deck is a pure run deck. I cobbled it together using a couple of decklists I found online, so I am not taking creative ownership over this, but I am having some issues getting everything balanced, and getting the icebreakers right, and basically making it work for me. That, and net damage totally messes with me.

Last time I played this deck (a revision ago), I ran out of steam mid to late game. And absolutely lost since I had nothing I could do and no money. I had used most of my useful cards already. So I added some recursion (I think that's the word) to help in that, like Same Old Thing, and Clone Chip, and I also added in some more economy cards, such as Dirty Laundry.

I also saw a great idea somewhere of using Datasucker and Parasite to kill off ICE, so I added that in too. Datasucker works well because it piggy backs off of my central runs. Clone chip lets me get back my Parasite as well once it's used up (or Crypsis, if I don't plan very well).

I'm just not too sure if everything is streamlined though. I'd like to add in another stimhack, another Planned Assault, another Same old thing... but I'm out of cards and influence. I'm not too sure about cards such as Account Siphon (getting Tags scares me), and Dyson Memory Chip (need the MU for extra parasites, and the Link is nice too).

I've thought about putting in Doppleganger, or Public Terminal. Also I like the Lucky Find card, but I think Sure Gamble is a bit better.

I'm not too sure about the icebreaker suite since it's basically locked into the centrals and it costs 2 credits to increase the strength of each. I took these from someones suggestion (some blog I found), but I am not too sure if this is a good choice. I looked at Faerie, but I don't know how useful it is since you trash it.

I'm not too sure what the best way to win the game with this deck is. Remote servers are hard with only Crypsis. However, Parasite, datasucker, and one stimhack help with that. I guess the way to win is just to hit everything and cause the Corp to spend money recklessly.

Just as a note, I have 1 core set (I wish I had another Desperado to add), all of the Genesis cycle, but I only have Double Time and H&P from the Spin Cycle.

Any suggestions would be fantastic!

Ken Tenma run deck

Ken "Express" Tenma: Disappeared Clone (Honor and Profit)

Event (22)
2x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
3x Inside Job (Core Set)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
2x Planned Assault (Honor and Profit)
2x Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow) ••
3x Special Order (Core Set)
1x Stimhack (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x The Maker's Eye (Core Set) ••••

Hardware (7)
2x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) ••••
1x Desperado (Core Set)
2x Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)

Resource (4)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)

Icebreaker (8)
2x Alias (Honor and Profit)
2x Breach (Honor and Profit)
2x Crypsis (Core Set)
2x Passport (Honor and Profit)

Program (4)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) ••
2x Parasite (Core Set) ••••
17 influence spent (max 17)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
 
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Fraser Mitchell
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Hi - Thanks for posting your decklist, I always like seeing different people's takes on netrunner.

Do you find that you always have enough money? You've only got the 7 econ cards in there and no way of searching for any of them specifically. I feel like that leaves you open to an unlucky draw - if you don't see any of them in your opening hand it could be tough for you.

I'd try to get 3 dirty laundry's in as they are worth 1 extra credit to you and there are plenty of times you are making a run when you know you will be successful, so it's money for nothing.

As you mention this kind of deck could really use more desperados but given you only have 1 core set I guess this isn't possible. I'd be tempted to include something like Mr Li to give you a bit of drawing power and help you find key cards.

With 2 of every breaker, plus crypsis and inside job I think you could cut one of the special orders. It's a great card for putting pressure on the corp early and stopping a frustrating scenario where you just cant get the breaker you need but I reckon 2 would be fine.

What are your plans for the dyson mem chips? As far as I can see you don't really need the memory as you only have 4 programmes. Speaking of which, you are really underestimating the power of faerie. It breaks archer for 4 and can get you out of a lot of trouble. Plus it really makes the corp think twice about scoring out behind sentries. With a faerie out you can also run in relative safety as there aren't many bad things that code gates and barriers can do to you (although more than there used to be)

I'm by no means an expert so we'll see what others have to say.

Fraser
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Ivan Barker
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Hi Fraser,

Thanks very much for your reply!

I find I have money up front, but as the game goes on the economy isn't as strong. How many econ cards should I try to get up to? I was running Security Testing for a bit, but decided that only gaining 2 credits (well... 4 with the Ken's power + Desperado), wasn't quite worth it. I also played around with the idea of Bankjob, but figured that the strength for this deck is attacking centrals, not remotes.

Just looking at Mr. Li right now, looks pretty good. Would you recommend over Quality Time? I feel like between Quality Time, Planned Assault, and Special Order, I have enough drawing cards (I think the word is Tutoring?).

The dyson mem chips are to support the datasucker and parasites, I have 4 icebreakers, and 1 datasucker, and I'd like to get 2 parasites out. That's 6 MU. Desperado would get me to 5, and I would need 1 more MU to cover it all. Of course I could use perhaps Doppleganger, maybe that would be better?

So with Faerie, do you recommend running with 3 of them? Since I have to trash it after? I want to make sure I don't run out! I've tried Faerie before, it seemed like it went away too quickly....

Thanks again for the comments!!
 
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Byron Grimes
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Ok, I know you don't have everything, but there are some definite improvements that can be made. I'm not going to look all the card ideas up, so hopefully they will be in few packs that you don't have. I'd go with 2 Faerie and one of Femme Fatale, if you have it. Bypassing a Tollbooth is too handy. I'd consider dropping the Parasites for a Corroder, Datasuckers alone should do a lot of work for you.

I would probably ditch the Quality Time as well, letting you buy a Gordian Blade or Torch. Prepaid VoicePad or Public Terminal will help you a lot. I would grab a Pheromones or 2, and definitely Security Testing.

Ideally, you might run 2x in a turn(3 if Security Testing). Security Testing will still trigger cards like Pheromones and Datasucker and Medium, so an SC run doesn't just have to be for the 2/3 cash.

Just my thoughts without have cards in front of me.
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James D.
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I'm kidding, of course. I think you still have a few misconceptions about the game, largely due to being a newer player. You're heading in the right direction with some of your ideas (such as Sure Gamble and Desperado) but I think you're a bit uncertain of other things, such as the value of Faerie. Let me help you out a bit:

Some random thoughts:

Account Siphon is powerful as heck. Faerie is pure gold in Criminal. The Centrals-only breakers are garbage, and usually cost more overall than regular breakers. The most powerful breakers in the game are Corroder/Zu.13/Mimic. You NEED a second copy of the Core Set if you're thinking about playing even semi-competitively.

You don't need that many copies of your breakers - one is usually enough for most competitive players. How do you get them? Three copies of Special Order, which can be recurred with Same Old Thing if absolutely necessary. If you find yourself losing breakers constantly, then you're doing it wrong as Criminal. You simply don't have Shaper levels of recursion, so you can't afford to be sloppy when running.

You don't need Planned Assault. You need more copies of your events, so that you have a better chance of drawing them and you can play multiples of them out during a game.

ICE Destruction via Parasite/Datasucker is a nice idea, but you really don't have the room for it. You really need to use your influence on the Anarch breakers, Zu.13, and three copies of Maker's Eye.

Here's a deck I think you should try:

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/16187/the-crimson-leaves-...

This is my brother's two-time Store Championship-winning Ken Tenma decklist. This deck has taken first-place at the Event Horizon and Game Theory Store Championships, and was the top seed going into the Elimination rounds at the Atomic Empire Championship, ending up in the Top 4 overall (due to Corp deck losses in the final rounds.)

Before anyone else claims that these results are a "fluke", a player with an identical copy of this deck ended up second-place at Game Theory and Gamer's Armory. That same player also made the Top 6 at Atomic Empire. That player's losses at those tournaments were mostly to my brother, the designer of this deck!

I don't want to boast too much, but I think my brother is really on to something with this deck, but it's one of the highest-winning Ken decks I've seen, and I think people haven't given Ken Tenma the proper consideration.

The main purpose of the deck is to create massive synergy on runs and run events through the combination of Desperado/Security Testing for money, Datasucker tokens to help reduce costs and get through certain ICE, and John Masanori for the card draw. Public Terminal helps save money on the Run Events - it's strictly better than Prepaid VoicePAD in this deck because it's cheaper, there are only a couple of cards that are not Run Events, and can be sacrificed to Power Shutdown without much of an impact on the deck's functionality.

I found it funny that you're afraid of net damage, because this Ken Tenma deck was actually designed to fight a Jinteki-heavy meta in our area, and crushes it hard. Feedback Filter is not great in a lot of decks, but with the economy provided by Security Testing and Kati Jones, along with the card draw from John Masanori, it generates enough money and cards in hand to handle practically any amount of net damage with ease. I've seen Personal Evolution players concede against this deck because it simply doesn't care about their net damage. The deck is so potent against net damage that every Personal Evolution player in our area has switched to Replicating Perfection. Feedback Filter even hepls against the brain damage generated by certain Haas-Bioroid cards, since FFG is trying to push brain damage more with upcoming cards.

Crash Space versus Plascrete Carapace is basically a personal call in this deck, as tag removal has been more necessary than meat damage protection. My brother feels Crash Space is more versatile and helps in more situations, not only for removing tags from Account Siphon, but for dealing with "surprise" tags such as Data Raven, as well as NBN Tagstorm decks. He feels Plascrete is a dead draw in too many matchups to warrant inclusion, especially since Blue Sun has fallen out of favor locally due to D4v1d recursion.

I would recommend reading over the decklist, and playing it a few times. Feel free to ask me questions - I've played both with and against this deck enough that I can probably help you out if you don't understand the purpose of something, or just need advice on how to play it!
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Ivan Barker
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Thanks very very much for the reply guys!!! This information is fantastic!

A couple specific comments:

I will for sure grab Faerie and Security Testing, since you both highly recommend them. Now my question is, how do you manage Faerie? I feel like I will be using it more than twice or 3 times... How do I balance it so I don't run out?

Byron, Pheromones and Medium seem like a really interesting idea. If I have space in my deck, I will for sure include these! Pheromones is great since it's in faction, and Medium seems like it would be really useful. They seem like they will work well with central runs that I will be doing anyways. Only problem I see is if the corp clears the board of all virus tokens, might hurt me a bit, but it causes the corp to waste their turn. I also see Nerve Agent might work well with Pheromones, since Nerve Agent targets the HQ.

I will for sure toss in Corrodor and drop Parasite since you both recommend that.

James, just a question about running with 1 breaker of each type... what do I do if the corp trashes one? Seems like I could run out of breakers that are required to get through certain ice. I've tried running with just 1 before of each type, and it got trashed and I was a bit screwed. Now I did put in the recursion aspect, so I think that should be easier to handle, but between Faerie, and only 1 of the rest, seems like I could be with no breakers! Any tips on how to handle this would be awesome!

Question on the breakers you chose. You put in Mimic. Is it wise to have a fixed strength breaker? Now I know Sentry type doesn't end the run, but it can do some really damaging things... is it Sentry type that you would use Datasucker on? Byron suggested Femme Fatale, which seems pretty nice, it's just very expensive. Or do you supplement the fixed strength breaker with Faerie?

I think I might disagree with Planned Assault. I like the idea of finding exactly the right Run event that I need. Let's say the HQ is open, well I just go to find a Legwork. R&D? Well I take a look for my Maker's eye. But I guess you can do that with the Same Old Thing card as well.

I took a look, I don't have him, but John Masanori looks quite nice. Looks like it would work quite well with this deck.

Feedback filter also looks quite awesome. I will for sure keep that in!

Thank you all very much for the help!!!

*Edit* one more quick question. I agree with you that I do like Crash Space a bit better than Plascrete... However with Plascrete I can use it for the oddball 1 off meat damage. With Crash Space you have to trash the whole card for a single meat damage. If you get 1 meat damage, do you just take it and just save Crash Space for Scorched Earth? I guess I'm thinking if the Corp has scored Private Security Force and I'm tagged.
 
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James D.
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Faerie is usually reserved for emergencies, such as really big scary sentries, so you shouldn't be using it constantly. Between Mimic with Datasucker tokens and using Faerie occasionally, you should be okay against sentries. That deck has one Clone Chip for emergencies, such as recurring a Faerie or getting a breaker back, so there's that as well. Speaking of getting breakers back, I think you should save the Clone Chip for that, but it shouldn't be much of a problem. As I said earlier, Criminals can't afford to make mistakes when they run, because they can't recover from them as easily as Shapers and certain Anarch builds can. For the most part, the only things that trash programs are Sentries, and that's what Faerie is for! Basically, what I'm saying is don't lose them in the first place.

I would caution against using Phermomones. I haven't seen any high-tier competitive deck use Pheromones in quite a while. Besides, if you have three Legwork and three Maker's Eye (and there's no reason you shouldn't), then Pheromones and Nerve Agent/Medium is inferior as the Corp can simply purge virus counters and severely hinder your progress.

You are indeed correct that the Faerie is to be used in conjunction with the fixed-strength breaker. Good catch. Femme Fatale is not great in-faction.... it's much better in Shaper and Anarch where it can be cheated out at a discount and reused easily. Just like Corroder, Mimic is statistically the best Sentry breaker in the game, and indeed is what you should usually save your Datasucker counter to be used with. That's not saying you should never use the Datasuckers for anything else... I only mean that Mimic is what they should usually be saved for. Most Sentries (especially in Jinteki) are low-strength, and are easily handled with a Mimic.

I'd like to point out that most people look at Ken Tenma and think, "RUN ALL THE TIME." That's not exactly how it works. Yes, you should be running as much as possible, but each run has to have a purpose: using Security Testing, getting Datasucker counters and card draw from John Masanori. Simply running for the sake of running is often a bad idea. Every once in a while, it's okay to just click and draw a card. LOL

Corroder is indeed the best Fracter in the game. You've made a good choice there. Parasite is a great card, don't get me wrong, but I just don't think there's enough room for an ICE destruction strategy in this deck.

You can waste time looking in your deck for an event, or you can have three copies of each one and enough Same Old Things to use them from the heap... your call. I don't have time to get into the math, but it's statistically better to have three copies because you have a far higher chance of drawing your event that way, especially if you have John Masanori on the table.

Speaking of Masanori, you have to be careful using him. He's great as giving you that card draw for successful runs, but he gives you a tag if you fail a run. Just be careful with the runs and you should be okay, especially since you can use Crash Space to clear the tag if you screw up!

As for the Crash Space, don't waste it on one net damage - save it for the Scorched Earth is you suspect they have it. Just take the hit against your hand and keep going.
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Joshua Ely
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Here is another list for inspiration. http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/6309/self-delivery-8th-pl...

i made top 8 at regionals last year with this deck only losing once, and that was a pretty severe misplay at 1:00 am. Anyway, its a bit different from the list above but at leats offers some other options. Ive taken versions of this deck too a number of tournaments and it has always preformed well.

Good luck on your building!
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Ivan Barker
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Thanks very much for the reply! All very good points.

I was taking a look at Zu, is it better than Peacock for this deck? I'm sure there's articles out there on that. But I was looking at some other decks, and some comments suggested peacock since it's in faction, and Zu costs 2 influence. Or Force of Nature, which is 1 influence.

*edit* found a post on the subject http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1294707/thoughts-decoders-cr...

I think I need to get the Opening Moves datapack for John Masanori next... Eventually I will get another core set for desperado, but that's a while off.

I'm using Mr. Li instead of John for now. I have only 1 Clone Chip right now, I'd like to get that up to 2 though, just for my own safety. I also lowered this to 2 Special Order, which I don't know how I feel about.

Ken Tenma run deck April 1

Ken "Express" Tenma: Disappeared Clone (Honor and Profit)

Event (20)
2x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
3x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
2x Planned Assault (Honor and Profit)
2x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
3x The Maker's Eye (Core Set) ••••• •

Hardware (6)
1x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) ••
1x Desperado (Core Set)
2x Feedback Filter (Creation and Control) ••
2x Public Terminal (Honor and Profit)

Resource (11)
2x Crash Space (Core Set)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Mr. Li (Future Proof)
3x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
2x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)

Icebreaker (6)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
3x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Mimic (Core Set)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) ••

Program (2)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) ••
17 influence spent (max 17)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
 
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James D.
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Quote:
Someone actually suggested playing Peacock and Force of Nature




No... Just no.

Zu.13 is statistically the best Code Gate breaker in the game. Please don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. It doesn't matter that it costs influence... that's why you have influence.

Also, Force of Nature. For any reason. shake
 
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Grish Noren
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I think we could have a serious argument over whether yog.0, gordian blade, or zu are the best in the game; but I concur that Force of Nature and Peacock do not belong on that list.
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Ivan Barker
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Thanks guys. Icebreaker choice still alludes me a bit. Do its interesting to read a bit of discussion of which ones to choose.

I still am a bit apprehensive about not really having a backup breaker, but I'll give this a spin and see what happens.

Oh I grabbed opening moves today. Between John masaroni and Jackson Howard, it was pretty important to get.
 
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