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Tara, Seat of Kings» Forums » General

Subject: Never-ending game? rss

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David Norman
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We played this last night, and gave up after 3 hours, because it seemed to never end.

The problem was, as soon as a player got a king, it would be knocked down faster than you could build a second king. We tried building the second one quickly, we tried to defend the first one while building the second one. Nothing worked.

Is this likely to be due to us playing the rules incorrectly, or is this what happens if you have a group that focus on not letting someone else winning as much as on winning themselves?

Thanks in advance,

David.
 
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Dan Blum
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It seems to me fairly likely to happen that way. The one game I played did not last as long as all that (although long enough to get quite tedious), but that was due to inept play on some players' parts (including mine). The game I observed from the next table took quite a long time.
 
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Anthony Boydell
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This sounds highly unusual - the longest game I've played in 3 years was 90 minutes and that was at Essen this year with three other (highly-competitive) players (and, believe me, I've played a LOT of games)

Can you provide any more information about the game? Did anyone use the Stone Of Destiny? How did Traitors affect the play? Were multiple regions being played? How was everyone with money? Weren't there lots of captives in a region?

When a board cleared (due to a King being crowned), did players take their prisoners and exchange/ransom them back?

It sounds like a rules misinterpretation issue as a player will need rare combinations of cards to overthrow an 'in-place' King so quickly after being established (and so often!)

Please feel free to email alan@surprisedstaregames.co.uk (Alan Paull, the Designer) - and post here - with more information.

Once again, this sounds extremely odd...
 
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David Norman
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Anthony,

Thanks for the reply.

tonyboydell wrote:
This sounds highly unusual - the longest game I've played in 3 years was 90 minutes and that was at Essen this year with three other (highly-competitive) players (and, believe me, I've played a LOT of games)

Can you provide any more information about the game?


Sure.

tonyboydell wrote:
Did anyone use the Stone Of Destiny?


Yes, if we got it, we used it. But it didn't seem that powerful. How would you expect to use it in a really powerful way?

tonyboydell wrote:
How did Traitors affect the play?


Several times they change who was getting a king, where two people had been fighting in a region. But never where the person who got the king, also had a king elsewhere.

tonyboydell wrote:
Were multiple regions being played?


Yes. At several stages, we had a king in every region. But nobody could get a second king faster than someone else could remove their king.

Most of the time, each player was concentrating on one region, because if you worked on getting a king in two regions simultaneously, then you'd lose to a different player who was concentrating on one region in each case.

tonyboydell wrote:
How was everyone with money?


Towards the end, most of the players had 10+ money, so the cost of promoting became almost irrelevant.

tonyboydell wrote:
Weren't there lots of captives in a region?


Yes, and we'd exchange them, and then buy them back - which helped the money go around.

tonyboydell wrote:
When a board cleared (due to a King being crowned), did players take their prisoners and exchange/ransom them back?


Usually yes - unless they had lots of pieces for the next round already, in which case they'd not pay the ransom immediately.

tonyboydell wrote:
It sounds like a rules misinterpretation issue as a player will need rare combinations of cards to overthrow an 'in-place' King so quickly after being established (and so often!)


The problem isn't that overthrowing a king is really quick. It's that it's quicker to overthrow a king than it is to overthrow a king and then get your king into its place. Hence you lose your first king more quickly than you get your second king into place.

The problem seemed to be that getting a king took about the same number of turns every time. Hence you had to win a race by a significant margin where everybody advanced at about the same speed.

tonyboydell wrote:
Please feel free to email alan@surprisedstaregames.co.uk (Alan Paull, the Designer) - and post here - with more information.

Once again, this sounds extremely odd...


I hope so - because apart from the game not ending, it seems like a very good game.

David.
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Richard Clyne
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I was in this game, and Tony is staying with me next week, so I'll chat with him and see what he says.
Richard
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Anthony Boydell
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Hello again..a couple more thoughts:

- as soon as someone gets a second king space the game ends - that means a player with a tall king (placed during CLEAR THE REGION) and a small piece (placed during a promotion to the top) - you DON'T wait until the end of the round, have traitors and get income...it's SUDDEN DEATH yuk

- a possible path to stalemate is achieving a king and then expending all resources to defend it - if all players do this, no-one gets #2 - this doesn't sound likely in your case.

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David Norman
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tonyboydell wrote:
Hello again..a couple more thoughts:

- as soon as someone gets a second king space the game ends - that means a player with a tall king (placed during CLEAR THE REGION) and a small piece (placed during a promotion to the top) - you DON'T wait until the end of the round, have traitors and get income...it's SUDDEN DEATH yuk


Ah - that's what we were doing wrong... I think that happened a couple of times during the game, but one of the king pieces was removed before the end of the round, so we played on...

tonyboydell wrote:
- a possible path to stalemate is achieving a king and then expending all resources to defend it - if all players do this, no-one gets #2 - this doesn't sound likely in your case.


I tried doing that a bit towards the end, to see if the problem was that we just weren't defending the first king enough while going for the second. But it didn't help - and we certainly weren't doing that at all for most of the game, we'd just get one king and then hope it'd survive long enough to get the second one.

David.
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Richard Clyne
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I think the rules we got wrong were:

When an area is cleared for a king, we were allowing the two pieces to be played as a fort rather than be played as seperate dobbers. This mistake will have made Kings easier to defend.

Secondly, when a traitor is declared, we only allowed pieces of the dominent player to be removed. We should have allowed any piece to be removed.

Thirdly, when a promotion resulted in a fort, we required it to be built and forced the destruction of a previous fort. This was fairly minor as most of the time we promoted through to the original fort.

I'll play another game - ideally with Tony playing to keep us using the rules correctly (allthough the first mistake came directly from him! )

Richard
 
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Dan Blum
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tonyboydell wrote:
- as soon as someone gets a second king space the game ends - that means a player with a tall king (placed during CLEAR THE REGION) and a small piece (placed during a promotion to the top) - you DON'T wait until the end of the round, have traitors and get income...it's SUDDEN DEATH

If you say so, but this was not at ALL clear from the rules. My (possibly faulty) recollection is that it said someone won once they got a second king - period. Since the rules elsewhere make a clear distinction between a piece in the king space and an actual king piece, we assumed the latter was meant.

In any case, in our game we didn't have a lot of kings getting knocked down, and we certainly did not make any of the other errors mentioned here. And the game still went far past the point I was bored with it.
 
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Huw Morris
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I played a three-player game of this on Tuesday, and had the same problem. In the end, we just had to give up and call it a draw.

Looking back I think the rule we were playing wrong was that you win immediately you get a small piece to the King position, while also having another King (large or small).

Now I think about it, the game must necessarily end shortly after all regions have had one King - I can't think of any scenario where this is not the case.

It's a fairly interesting game, so I'd like to give it another go, with the correct rules.
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Derek Carver
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Whilst the thread indicates that in the present case a rule had been played incorrectly I still think that players should understand that games can go on well beyond the 90 minutes on the box.

Our game last evening is an example. We didn't play slowly but Kings got regularly deposed and we started to despair of the game ever finishing. But after 2¼ hours one player then got the right cards (whilst others didn't - neither 'Stone of Destiny' cards being in play at the time and which could have changed things) and occupied his second King spot.

We all greatly enjoyed it but agreed that we might not have done so had it gone on much longer.

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Daniel Corban
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tool wrote:
tonyboydell wrote:
- as soon as someone gets a second king space the game ends - that means a player with a tall king (placed during CLEAR THE REGION) and a small piece (placed during a promotion to the top) - you DON'T wait until the end of the round, have traitors and get income...it's SUDDEN DEATH

If you say so, but this was not at ALL clear from the rules.


It’s been over a decade, but I’d like to exonerate the publisher here. The rulebook is very clear on this. It says the game ends when “a player controls the king’s position in two different regions”. You could win this game with zero “king pieces” in play.
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