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Subject: Game Image Uploads :: What is Allowed? What is not? Where is 'the line'? rss

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'Arctica' Gary
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I'm sure this is not the first game its happened, there are examples like this all over - but I happen to be subscribed to this one, and it has peaked my interest over the past few days as I see more and more of these images roll in, so I'd like to use them as an example to:

A) Understand what is, and is not actually supposed to be uploaded, comparing directly to the rules/guidelines on image uploading

B) Understand what can/should be done to 'flag' an image that does make it through the image approval process improperly, and its more than just 'wrong gallery'.

For Reference, the rules on image uploading are:
Quote:

You may only upload pictures that you have taken yourself or for which you have obtained explicit permission to upload from the rights holder. Include a notice that permission was received and from whom in the caption when uploading images that are not your own. Further, uploading an image with a visible watermark, company logo, url, or any other branding not original to the image is prohibited. Please obtain a version without such elements if you wish to upload that image. Failure to adhere to these rules may be grounds for suspension of uploading rights or suspension of your account, depending on the severity of the offense.

Before uploading an image, consider whether it is likely to be approved. Make sure that the image is properly cropped and rotated, and that the quality is at least comparable to other images in the database. Submitting multiple similar images at once may result in all images being rejected; instead try choosing the best image or images from a set to upload. Please do NOT submit individual images for each component (mini, card, tile, etc.) This is especially true for collectible minis games and CCGs.

Images may be rejected for any of the following reasons:

Too similar: Image is too similar to other images uploaded by the same user or to an existing image and is not of significantly better quality.
Duplicate image: Image is already in the database.
Rule Scans: Please don't upload scans of the rules pages.
Offensive: Image contains inappropriate material.
Corrupt: Image does not display properly.
Too small: Image resolution is too low. (Images should be at least 320x200, if not a company logo)
Too large: Scans and copy-photography images of flat materials, such as counter sheets and cards, may have a maximum resolution of 200ppi, or a maximum size of 1900 pixels on the long side, whichever is less.
Blurry: Image is not well focused.
Under/Overexposed: Image is too dark or bright.
Bad glare: Image has too much glare, or is obscured by a reflection from the flash.
Badly cropped: Image has too much white space.
Badly rotated: Image is sideways or upside-down.
Wrong item: Image is submitted for the wrong item.
Wrong gallery: Image is submitted to the wrong gallery (Game, People, Creative).
Advertising: No advertisements or promotional banners for new releases. To advertise, contact adrates@boardgamegeek.com
Please upload images in JPG format and only click the submit button one time.

Every user has a personal gallery. Please do not link images from a personal gallery to a database entry.
Quote:

Image Upload Guidelines for BGG
General Rules

These general rules apply no matter to which gallery the image has been submitted:

You must own the image in some way or have permission to use it for this purpose;
If the image is an original piece of artwork, you must have written permission of the intellectual property rights holder to upload it;
If you have received written permission to use the image from the intellectual property rights holders, include a notice that permission was received and from whom in the caption.
Images should be at least 320x200 pixels. Company logos are an exception - they are allowed at any size.
Scans and copy-photography images of flat materials, such as counter sheets and cards, may have a maximum resolution of 200ppi, or a maximum size of 1900 pixels on the long side, whichever is less.
Images must be submitted to the correct item, and to the correct gallery (Game, People, Creative);
Images must be cropped, correctly rotated and without glare;
The quality should be at least comparable to other images in the database.
Images must be in normal RGB format. CMYK isn't universally supported by all browsers yet and will be blocked by the upload system;
If your image is declined, seek out the reason and correct the problem. Do not try to upload again in the hopes it will get through geekmod.
Do not link images from a personal gallery to a database entry.
The following types of images are not allowed:

Watermarked images (images with a visible watermark, company logo, url, or any other branding not original to the image);
Individual images for each component (mini, card, tile, etc.) This is especially true for collectible minis games and CCGs;
Images too similar to other images uploaded by the same user or to an existing image and not of significantly better quality;
Advertisements or promotional banners for new releases. To advertise, contact adrates@boardgamegeek.com;
Offensive images, containing inappropriate material;
Images outside of the size guidelines;
Duplicate images;
Animated images;
Scans of the rules pages;
Images without captions


I bolded the sections I want to focus on here, because these are the ones that I seem to be most uncertain about.


The Game in question here is Trains: Rising Sun

1: Scans of the rules pages

What does this mean? Because the following images were all approved:

Is this one okay, because, even though it is a direct image of the game rules, because it is a "photo" not a "scan" and is only of 2 of the pages instead of 6? If so, whats to stop another user from uploading the next two pages and completing the set?

What is the 'spirit' of this rule? Likewise, the following, which are all presumably scans, were also uploaded. These were all uploaded to the "Creative" gallery.



These are all direct scans from the game rules. They are useful images, perhaps, but nonetheless, scans from the rules. Are they allowed? If so, What category do they belong in? They were uploaded to Creative. I submitted a "correction" to one before I realized that this would become a daily recurrence; mentioning that it was not 'creative' but was a scan of the game rules, and it was moved to the game category.

These images may be more in the 'spirit' of the rule, but still the same question persists, as they are just direct scans of the rules included with the game - and someone is getting 'paid' to upload them as 'creative'.

2: Individual Images of each Component/Card

It seems like the "popular" way to get around this rule is instead of uploading an image of a single card, just put 2-4 next to each other and then upload them.

Is this what is intended? Obviously it really isn't that different uploading a scan of a single card, vs. a scan of 3 single cards side by side - so which way is allowed, if any, or all?

And coupling it with the duplicate images rule, here is an interesting test:

- As well as;


Since the game comes with 10+ of each card, why not just line up 3 of the same card side by side and call it good? Now its not an individual component/card; its 3 of them. But in this case, 3 of the same exact card. So, has the uploader 'skirted' the rules by putting 3 of the same card in one image, thereby, its not an image of a single component, even though only one unique component is shown, and, its not a duplicate image, because there is one image of 3 identical cards, instead of 3 images of 1 identical card?

Is this an issue? is it not?

Elsewise, it looks like about every single card in the game is now uploaded to the image gallery, and if thats allowed, then thats all good, but it seems to be 'sketchy' based on the image upload guidelines.




But, I'm just trying to understand what is *supposed* to be allowed, and what is not. It very may well be that all these images are perfectly acceptable, in which case I'd say maybe some more clarity in the rules to spell that out.

I mean, If I can start uploading scans of parts of pages out of the game rules, put 2 or 3 cards together upload those for various games etc. etc. there is a lot geekgold potential in my future! If not, however, what process exists for flagging images that got through improperly, to have them moved back to a users personal gallery/whatever the correct action is?

And it may be the case that the user uploading these had special permission to do so even though they might not be consistent with the image upload rules - which also, is fine, but if that is the case, there is nothing on the image's page denoting that, which makes it confusing from a standpoint of understanding what us normal folk are allowed to upload to the game's gallery v. just our personal gallery.

Thanks for your time and help so I can once and for all understand what images are cool for uploading, and which are not
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Kathrin
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I'm also interested in the answer to these questions (especially an official one).
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Tomello Visello
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3wgames wrote:
2: Individual Images of each Component/Card

It seems like the "popular" way to get around this rule is instead of uploading an image of a single card, just put 2-4 next to each other and then upload them.

Is this what is intended? Obviously it really isn't that different uploading a scan of a single card, vs. a scan of 3 single cards side by side - so which way is allowed, if any, or all?
I can understand that you might view this is a way to "get around the rule". I believe, though, that the rule was more about having fewer images in a gallery rather than about prohibiting display of the complete the deck.


(has little impact on my own interests; I am less likely to be playing games with totally unique cards anyhow)
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Tomello Visello
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3wgames wrote:
so I'd like to use them as an example to: ...

B) Understand what can/should be done to 'flag' an image that does make it through the image approval process improperly, and its more than just 'wrong gallery'.

Use the "Corrections" link in the upper right corner of the game's main page. There is a box at the bottom of the Corrections form to write a Note for Admins. Explain the issue and include relevant image numbers.

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The rules spread I would decline for being rules.

The rules diagrams and legends I would decline for being irrelevant. There's no reason for bits and pieces of rulebook to be in the gallery; if they're needed for a review they can be in a personal gallery.

The three-of-a-card I would decline for effectively being a single card.

But that's just me. I decline everything.
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The problem is that the moderators are other users--who get paid in GG if they agree with the final decision, and the default is to accept. Given the small fee paid, it's a lot easier to just click accept than to have to click decline and then identify why.
Most of the modders don't seem to care about the rules--as is clearly evident in the massive number of violations present in the galleries.

This was summed up neatly by advice for someone once who was asking why his picture didn't get accepted (the odd time this actually happens). The advice was "Just resubmit it. Eventually it'll get through."

It's nice to see there are people making an effort to do some quality control.

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tanik wrote:

The problem is that the moderators are other users--who get paid in GG if they agree with the final decision, and the default is to accept. Given the small fee paid, it's a lot easier to just click accept than to have to click decline and then identify why.
Most of the modders don't seem to care about the rules--as is clearly evident in the massive number of violations present in the galleries.

This was summed up neatly by advice for someone once who was asking why his picture didn't get accepted (the odd time this actually happens). The advice was "Just resubmit it. Eventually it'll get through."

It's nice to see there are people making an effort to do some quality control.


They make it pretty easy to look for duplicates of images while geekmodding but it seems like people still don't. And people tend to cry on the forums if you don't approve all of their images, so I think we may just have to accept that for the really popular games the image galleries are going to be a bit of a mess
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anatana wrote:
They make it pretty easy to look for duplicates of images while geekmodding


I find it's much harder than it used to be. Now you see existing images from all galleries whether you want to or not, which means you can capture duplicates uploaded to different categories. However, this is only possibly in practice for entries with just a few images. For any other game the amount of irrelevant information to sort through is multiplied. Try searching the Agricola gallery scrolling through thirty-five pages of individual farmereeples or something trying to find out whether someone is trying to upload a perfectly redundant box cover with bad lighting and crop, with the interface scrolling you to another part of the page every time you click on an arrow. The old interface wasn't perfect, but the new one makes it painfully clear that this is work. The only sane response is to decline everything.
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Kaffedrake wrote:
anatana wrote:
They make it pretty easy to look for duplicates of images while geekmodding


I find it's much harder than it used to be. Now you see existing images from all galleries whether you want to or not, which means you can capture duplicates uploaded to different categories. However, this is only possibly in practice for entries with just a few images. For any other game the amount of irrelevant information to sort through is multiplied. Try searching the Agricola gallery scrolling through thirty-five pages of individual farmereeples or something trying to find out whether someone is trying to upload a perfectly redundant box cover with bad lighting and crop, with the interface scrolling you to another part of the page every time you click on an arrow. The old interface wasn't perfect, but the new one makes it painfully clear that this is work. The only sane response is to decline everything.


I agree, the new system is quite painful to use.
And I found myself doing just that--declining instead. If there are already two or three hundred images, I'm sure we don't need another "box in shrink", or what the game board looked like when you finished your game.



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'Arctica' Gary
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tanik wrote:

or what the game board looked like when you finished your game.





And thats a whole different kind of issue. Thats the reason why the gallery's are so clogged up to begin with, thats where people need to be 'incentivized' to keep those images in their personal gallery, or set up a new gameplay gallery so the rest of us can easily filter them out on the game page.
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Stuff goes on.



Nineteen images like this one were approved.

Each is about 5000x3000 px.

Each has a single painted mini in it.

Each mini takes up about 1000x1500 px or about 10% of the image.

Let's approve them because why not.

A question: what do the people who never click "badly cropped" think is meant by bad cropping?

It's mostly rhetorical.

Also, clearly not every person who bought Imperial Assault has managed to submit single mini shots for every mini yet, so let's approve multiple angle single mini shots for the ones that do submit single mini shots for every single mini. Because why not.
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I agree, Creative is a dumping ground for anything that would not have a chance in the Game gallery, and the individual component should be applied more strictly.

(Well, that's one reason I don't frequent the picture mod that often. Now that the personal approval stats are not shown anymore, I might do more and try to go against the flow.)
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a1bert wrote:
Now that the personal approval stats are not shown anymore, I might do more and try to go against the flow.


I miss the personal approval stats. I was looking forward to my approval accuracy dropping below 50%, but now that goal has been yanked away.
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Kaffedrake wrote:



Nineteen images like this one were approved.

?? I find this one in the personal gallery. Could it have already been acted upon by an Admin?

(also, this is actually a well focused and properly illuminated image, making it rarer. And lot harder to say this one is a travesty.)
 
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'Arctica' Gary
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Perhaps if people had to go through the same amount of 'trouble' to approve an image (IE: Clicking a reason why it *is* acceptable) they would actually think about whether they should decline it instead?
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TVis wrote:
?? I find this one in the personal gallery. Could it have already been acted upon by an Admin?


They were moved by a Power That Be who apparently agreed they were a bit much.

TVis wrote:
(also, this is actually a well focused and properly illuminated image, making it rarer. And lot harder to say this one is a travesty.)


But that doesn't mean it couldn't also be properly cropped and/or composited.
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Kaffedrake wrote:
TVis wrote:
(also, this is actually a well focused and properly illuminated image, making it rarer. And lot harder to say this one is a travesty.)


But that doesn't mean it couldn't also be properly cropped and/or composited.

I think the difference may be that you are concentrating on the details of the central object while submitter may be interested in the larger atmospheric attitude of the object within its environment.



 
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And then there's images like this that gets approved. I really don't understand why. This certainly belongs in a personal gallery, not in the game images, regardless of the gallery (whether Game, People, or Creative). shake

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craw-daddy wrote:
And then there's images like this that gets approved. I really don't understand why. This certainly belongs in a personal gallery, not in the game images, regardless of the gallery (whether Game, People, or Creative). :shake:

I took a look. This user has anther pet photo also. No others. Would you be willing to post a kind, non-threatening comment for the image you show? Something to offer guidance about relevance?



 
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craw-daddy wrote:
... This certainly belongs in a personal gallery, not in the game images, regardless of the gallery (whether Game, People, or Creative). :shake:

I think this other image explains a motivation.

Here are two identical photos. One is indeed in the personal gallery and collected one Thumb. The second is in a game gallery and awarded 26 Thumbs



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3wgames wrote:
Perhaps if people had to go through the same amount of 'trouble' to approve an image (IE: Clicking a reason why it *is* acceptable) they would actually think about whether they should decline it instead?


I agree. This is something I've suggested before. I think it needs to require more thought and effort to approve something.


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TVis wrote:
craw-daddy wrote:
... This certainly belongs in a personal gallery, not in the game images, regardless of the gallery (whether Game, People, or Creative). shake

I think this other image explains a motivation.

Here are two identical photos. One is indeed in the personal gallery and collected one Thumb. The second is in a game gallery and awarded 26 Thumbs





For what it's worth, I reject every gratuitously cute animal image just on principle.

It's your pet, and you think it's cute. I get that - my golden retriever puppy is cuter than any living thing - bit and be learned long ago that most people don't appreciate having irrelevant cuteness inflicted on them ...
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tanik wrote:
3wgames wrote:
Perhaps if people had to go through the same amount of 'trouble' to approve an image (IE: Clicking a reason why it *is* acceptable) they would actually think about whether they should decline it instead?


I agree. This is something I've suggested before. I think it needs to require more thought and effort to approve something.





As someone who's nodded literally multiple tens of thousands of images, I have to remind myself that it's BGG's gallery, not mine. I'm part of a crowdsourced implementation of rules created by the galleries' owners, and they're the ones to decide if the galleries are the way they want them.

Until they change the rules, I just call em like I see em.
 
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'Arctica' Gary
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Here's some fun ones:

2 Separate images, both scans of a single card, both approved

 


Now to be fair, the whole thing is a single card, but still, it is an individual component, and it has been approved twice. hah.
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Kaffedrake wrote:
a1bert wrote:
Now that the personal approval stats are not shown anymore, I might do more and try to go against the flow.


I miss the personal approval stats. I was looking forward to my approval accuracy dropping below 50%, but now that goal has been yanked away.


If you aren't following the groupthink of Geekmod, chances are you are doing something right. However, you won't earn much Geekgold if you don't follow the majority votes.

It's a shame people trying to keep to the criteria seem to get disillusioned by the blanket approvals of poor images and step away from Geekmod.

At some point someone is going to have to step in and sort out the mess Geekmod has created and continues to add to - on a daily basis.
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