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The Ships: Armada Invincible» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement rules - pivoting with furled sails rss

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Stefano Izzo
Italy
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In the game, movement rules about reaction of the ship depending on wind direction are very simplified; I think this is a choice in order to keep the game fast and simple and I can agree with Zvezda.
But there is an important issue which deserves a lot of effects during the gameplay: freely pivoting the ship with furled sails.
This is an option you have when the ship has furled sails, she is stopped and consequently she didn't receive movement tokens.
This kind of move takes place at the end of the movement phase: you can pivot your ship one hex side (from bow or stern) regardless the direction of wind.
This is a great opportunity in order to deploy your ship for a good broadside even with furled sails, but I think that this sort of move is totally unrealistic.
How a stopped galleon could pivot with the stern or the bow regardless the direction of wind???
What do you think about?
 
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Thomas J.
Germany
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I wouldn't call it a "great opportunity", as the pivot (and its direction) has to be plotted before in the Issue Orders phase, of course.

But how realistic is the option? If "furled sails" actually means "no sails at all set", such a pivot would be impossible. Maybe the designer presumed that "furled sails" could also mean "just a few sails set". (Just three sail states is an abstraction, too.)

But if you interpret "furled sails" literally, such a pivot should only be allowed with battle or full sails and if the ship wouldn't else be able to move due to lost masts and wind facing.

In both cases, you could add a test for the planned pivot to succeed (comparable to the Tacking test in my movement variant), if you want a little bit more realism.
 
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Stefano Izzo
Italy
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Yes, I know, you're right: the pivot and its direction must be plotted before.
But even so this is an opportunity, because it is quite easy to pivot in order to show your side to the enemy and fire a broadside, even with furled sails: in one or two games this has been quite decisive.
In the real world this could not happen, because your pivoting move, even if possible, in most conditions could be very slow and not totally predictable.

Another unrealistic issue is the opportunity you have to pass from "full sails" to "furled sails" in just one game turn; it should be mandatory to stay "battle sails" in the middle.
Changing suddenly from "furled" to "full sails" is very severe against the English: he is faster but he as less guns, his ships are more fragile and his crew is much more exposed than the Spanish one, so his best chance is to hit the sails of the enemy.
If the Spanish stands in "furled sails", for the English is very difficult to inflict damage to the sails of the Spanish ships.
At the contrary, if the English wants to maximize his superior speed he needs to approach the Spanish in "full sails" and so he is very exposed to lose his sails (and speed) due to the Spanish fire.
 
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Thomas J.
Germany
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Quote:
Another unrealistic issue is the opportunity you have to pass from "full sails" to "furled sails" in just one game turn; it should be mandatory to stay "battle sails" in the middle.


I agree. In fact, we are already using that houserule.

In general, the rules need rather a lot of tweaking. But on the bright side, it's not a complicated system and that makes such tweaking easy.
 
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Greg Hagg
New Zealand
Freemans Bay
Auckland
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Armada Invincible: Alternate Rules and Clarifications we use

Pivot: As the rulebook says several times about ‘pivot’, it allows no other movements. This means that pivoting is itself a turn movement but undertaken with furled sails and not using tokens. For ships that must undertake a straight movement before turning, this means that a pivot must take place directly after a turn in which the ship’s last movement was a straight movement. Such ships are unable to pivot after a turn with furled sails, and cannot pivot again until they end a turn on a straight movement. Ships not requiring a straight movement can pivot in consecutive turns. Also, as a pivot is a movement, we have cancelled the +2 for furled sails, using the battle sails'+0 factor, but kept the furled bar-shot save, as furled sails are hard to hit.

Sails: As it seems quite unrealistic to go from full sails to furled and vice versa instantly, we have made it compulsory to go through battle sails first.

Wind direction: As wind advantage seems too strong, we have added a wind change factor, to take place before each turn - on a 1 the wind direction turns counter-clockwise one hex-side and on a 2, clockwise.

We read and were interested in, the alternative movement rules, but thought this is enough for now. Thoughts?
 
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Midel Burgo
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Just my ideas.

Historically you have plenty of sailing ships with furled sails pivoting in order to direct their broadsides. But this needed some preparation, because it was made by deploying anchors to opposite sides and stretching the cables.

On the second question, it was possible to release sails and go from furled to full sail in very little time. But not the other way around.
Cheers.
 
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