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Subject: Help me price my game rss

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Joseph Larson
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I am currently trying to convince myself that I can this thing, actually self publish a game. To help me I'm going to tell you what you get in the box I want you to answer 2 questions for me: how much would you expect this to cost, and how much would you be willing to pay for it?

Here's what's in the box:
20 red generic character pawns
20 blue generic character pawns
2 red soldier class pawn bodies
2 blue soldier class pawn bodies
1 red Archer class body
1 blue Archer class body
8 race heads (2 each of 4 races)
4 terrain elements
1 marble roller
1 marble
4 step measuring feet markers
4 leaf tokens
18 full color cards
16 page full color rule book

The game is called Wood Wars 3D and you can find out more on its BGG page: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/175759/wood-wars-3d
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Tuomas Ylikoski
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I would assume that this could be seen sold in the 29.99 $ range but I would be comfortable paying around 22 $. I concider that this game would be in filler gategory so that is why I went for this amount. If I would have to pay more it would depend on other peoples reviews of the game and also the component quality if I would spend that kind of sum or not.

Lots of effort you have already invested here! Keep on going!
Are you going to Kickstart this?
 
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dennis bennett
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With all the minis and terrain elements maybe 40-50$?
I doubt much below that would be realistic for a game with 50+ minis.
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Steven Tu
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I would try to look at the market and see what any similarly kitted games are going for, round about. That's just component wise, though. Then you got the actual game, and the brand power. Some games leverage off more of that (any star wars game, for example) and go at a premium.

Not to say they're bad games.

But yeah, have you looked at the competition yet?

Love the idea of the heads, dunno if it translates to a great game (haven't been following the rules, since I'm not big into miniatures), but I hope it does, and good luck!
 
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Steven Tu
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NagareboshiFin wrote:
I would assume that this could be seen sold in the 29.99 $ range but I would be comfortable paying around 22 $.


That seems on the low side, considering what I've seen before...

This was on Kickstarter, granted the quality and count and art aren't exactly the same, but I'd say it's comparable:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/ninja...

These went for $100 a pop.
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Tuomas Ylikoski
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Tuism wrote:
NagareboshiFin wrote:
I would assume that this could be seen sold in the 29.99 $ range but I would be comfortable paying around 22 $.


That seems on the low side, considering what I've seen before...

This was on Kickstarter, granted the quality and count and art aren't exactly the same, but I'd say it's comparable:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/ninja...

These went for $100 a pop.


Well it is different thing what somebody is willing to pay in kickstarter fever and on the other hand, in the retail.
my 29.99 was low, but I would expect to see the final art, box and the rulebook before even concidering to pay anything above that.
 
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Steven Tu
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NagareboshiFin wrote:
Tuism wrote:
NagareboshiFin wrote:
I would assume that this could be seen sold in the 29.99 $ range but I would be comfortable paying around 22 $.


That seems on the low side, considering what I've seen before...

This was on Kickstarter, granted the quality and count and art aren't exactly the same, but I'd say it's comparable:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/ninja...

These went for $100 a pop.


Well it is different thing what somebody is willing to pay in kickstarter fever and on the other hand, in the retail.
my 29.99 was low, but I would expect to see the final art, box and the rulebook before even concidering to pay anything above that.


When I said that the quality etc isn't the same I meant that the final product must be assumed to have 1) great/comparable gameplay 2) great/comparable art 3) great/comparable level of detail and quality in miniatures.

I realise that all of those can't be taken for granted, but I assume it must be so if taking something of such great cost to market.
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TTDG
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It cost what it cost. What you sell it for should be above what it cost. If you can't sell it for that, then you re-source your product to reduce cost, make a better game, invest money into marketing, don't make the game, run a bankrupted kickstarter, or some other option.

What are your pieces made of? Where are you getting them made? Do you have a cost estimate in hand from some manufacturer? Can you substitute materials, components, or manufacturing location in order to save on cost without irreparably ruining the 'quality' of your game? How many copies do you plan to order?

For a 'marble' game, you can have fancy miniatures made of, potentially, several different materials, at various resolutions, sense of theme, and cost. I could see your game, with a lot less theme, made with simple wooden cylinders. But I don't know if wooden cylinders cost less than whatever you have now, or whatever you are hoping to sell. Maybe you plan to make fancy miniatures a stretch goal; I don't know.

It seems fairly foolish to me to rely on a small number of random strangers to give you a sell price, even if you were showing us a 'final' version of the game. This is where you should have some better than random market research for your proposed sales site. I am not going to give you a spreadsheet of KS numbers or game store numbers, and you should not trust me if I said I was. Do your own 'work'.

IF, you've playtested this game, then you could have at least asked them, a hopefully large quantity of people, what they would be willing to pay for it, and then adjust that by the fact that other people won't have played your game but will be seeing your higher quality 'final' version.

angry

Edit: If you are going to 3D print this, then are you doing this yourself, or farming it out? How much will your plastic cost you? Do you have a plan to deal with getting games to people in a timely fashion? I ask because these things likely affect the cost and sales price. (Note, my questions are rhetorical, for your sake and not mine.) How do you intend to sell these? KS is popular, and may get you some press if you lay claim to 3D printed minis, but has its own problems, and all of these things potentially affect the #s.
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DJ Wilde
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It feels like you're fishing for numbers and I think you're going to be disappointed. Note that you aren't getting flooded with numbers here? You need to get out there with your game and drum up some local excitement for it.

Not matter what you do, the cost starts with what it costs you to make it. Now, I'll add that people will pay higher for games that suitably excite them to play, but you don't necessarily want to start with that number. Remember supply and demand and that this is NEW. Don't get dollar signs in your eyes and let that wreck your game's chances in the market. Your game has to get its name out there and get attention to create a demand. Demand gets the money.

So price your game strategically and carefully. My game, Galaxy Zento costs me about 34 dollars to make. I'm pricing it at 45. That puts a little money in my pocket for profit and keeps the game in a competitive pricing zone

So research game pricing and good luck.
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Joseph Larson
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Rapid fire question time.

Yes, Tuomas Ylikoski, I am planning on kickstarting it.

Yes, Steven Tu, I have looked at the competition, but of course it's complicated because there are few games like this one.

Yes, DJ Wilde, I am looking for number spam. This is just an informal poll, probably won't effect anything.

TTDG,I know what my costs are. The question is whether I have a chance of recouping them. And the costs are multi-facilitated and complicated. My goal here is to use the funds from this game kickstart a 3D printing farm that might could be used for future projects. Yes, I'm 3D printing this game.

The other thing is I've done a lot of work on this and I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. You can talk labor of all you want, if I had hired out the work I'm going to be doing I'd be in the hole and in a lot of ways I am. I don't see why I should have to eat those costs just because I'm the one doing it. Call me capitalist.

So keep the informal poll coming. How much would you expect it to cost? How much would you be willing to shell out for it?
 
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Derek H
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cymon wrote:
The other thing is I've done a lot of work on this and I'm going to be doing a lot of work on this. You can talk labor of all you want, if I had hired out the work I'm going to be doing I'd be in the hole and in a lot of ways I am. I don't see why I should have to eat those costs just because I'm the one doing it. Call me capitalist.

Its perhaps not your intention, but you do sound a little belligerent because people want to give you their ideas and insights instead of a simplistic number. But I will attempt a reply anyway ...

Quick answer would be this KS project, which ironically appears in an advert on the same page as your question:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1816687860/orcs-must-di...
They are charging $90 for two sets of custom armies, custom dice, board tiles, plus cards with creatures illustrations & abilities. Unless you're a miniatures sculptor AND an illustrator AND a graphic designer, you will need help getting your game to that level of "awesome", which is what you are really going to need to attract customers with open wallets.

If you stick with generic pieces and low quality art, then likely you will not get away with charging more than $25-$30 --- and, of course, you are far less likely to even attract buyers because your game does not look as "cool" as current products. (And, like or not, that kind of project is what you are going to be compared with.)

I am really not a target market for games like this - so this is my high-level, 10 000 foot view from reading similar threads on BGG and visiting (from an interest POV) various KS projects.

I hope this helps somewhat, even if its not exactly the answer you want.
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Robert Seater
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I would expect to see such a game sold for $50+, but I would only pay about $15 given the apparent gameplay & theme.

I'm only willing to pay for fancy component if I know the game is very good or if the theme really speaks to me. Cards like "Bear" and "Archer" do not get me thematically excited. I like goblins thematically, but there are lots of games with them so there needs to be something else to make it stand out.

At a glance, the game itself looks like a simplified tactical game that will probably have little depth. I could be wrong, clearly having never played the game, but my first impression is "shallow gameplay + overproduced components == highly priced gamble". I'd pass and wait to read reviews.

So, here is a very crude formla:
base price for the gamble: $10
supports solo play: +$10
a few good reviews: +$20
overwhelming good reviews: +$20
novel mechanic: +$20
exciting theme: +$20

So, I'd pay anywhere from $10-$100.
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Moose Much?
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I think I saw once that your final price should be 4-5 times the production cost...otherwise you will spend more than you make. So if a set costs you 10$ to make (which will only be achievable with bulk orders from China) it should be a 50$ game.

With this many minis, the original tooling costs can get quite expensive.
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dennis bennett
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to be honest, i'm not sure you'll get very realistic answers here as i don't think this subforum is frequented by the same people who might find your game appealing if they saw it on kickstarter.

If you can find a way to make it look non-promotional/non-spam you might be better off asking a similar question in the general gaming forum.

I.e. you could choose some random other pictures of similar games and create a poll asking for what people think they are worth or what they would be prepared to pay for them (perhaps 2 very different questions).
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Joseph Larson
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gamesbook wrote:
Its perhaps not your intention, but you do sound a little belligerent because people want to give you their ideas and insights instead of a simplistic number. But I will attempt a reply anyway ...

Sorry. Sorry. Not my intent.

But thanks for the thoughtful response. It's all very helpful.

Quote:
Unless you're a miniatures sculptor AND an illustrator AND a graphic designer

Maybe I am. I need to work on some of the illustrations this week to see if I can still pull of that level of awesome. On the other hand, if I can't you've given me a baseline I can explore for pricing.
 
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Val Ruza
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On a kickstarter I wouldn't pay anything for it. If it was in a shop and I was looking for such a game I would maybe be willing to pay $40 - $45 for it. Although I must admit the lack of any real information on the game would mostly likely mean I would give it a pass.
 
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Steven Tu
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Just as a final note, I pulled out that $100 example to say that that's what THEY got. If you can pull off that level of awesome in everything in the game (design, marketing, illustration, sculpt, cost, volume, quality, etc), then it'll be worth that much.

If not, then... adjust expectations accordingly, and we're back to cluelessland.
 
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Joseph Larson
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Belz wrote:
On a kickstarter I wouldn't pay anything for it. If it was in a shop and I was looking for such a game I would maybe be willing to pay $40 - $45 for it. Although I must admit the lack of any real information on the game would mostly likely mean I would give it a pass.

What information are you looking for? Where have you looked already?
 
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