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Subject: Investor Question rss

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Nick Fisk
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Stoke on Trent
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Come on you Seagulls! Sami Hyppia's Blue & White army!
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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In the rules, when a country's marker passes the Investor space on the Rondel, the player holding the Investor card gets 2 million from the bank, and may invest by issuing one bond or upgrade (exactly) one bond for one other.

After that, anyone without a flag may now invest, but will not receive the 2 million from the bank.

My question is this:

At what point are the "players without countries" determined?

In the rules, it says that if more than one player is without a flag, investing is done in clockwise order.

I see three possibilities:

(player 1 is the investor, all other numbers are clockwise from him)

1. The Investor throws some money at France and takes the flag. Player 4 was the owner of France and is now without a flag, however he is not allowed to invest as he already had a flag when the Investor action started.

2. The Investor throws some money at France and takes the flag. Player 4 was the owner of France and he is now without a flag. He may no invest and throws a heap of cash into Great Britain, taking it from Player 2. Player 2 is now without a flag, but cannot invest as he is sitting to the right of Player 4 and his "clockwise" moment has passed.

3. The Investor throws some money at France and takes the flag. Player 4 was the owner of France and he is now without a flag. He may no invest and throws a heap of cash into Great Britain, taking it from Player 2. Player 2 is now without a flag, so he may now invest in another country. This continues, until all of the players who don't have a flag (or suddenly find themselves without one) have had a chance to invest, however they will only invest once each per turn.


Because the rules are written like this ...

Quote:
The Investor action is completed in three steps:

Step 1: Country pays interest
Step 2: Investor gets 2 million and invests
Step 3: Anyone without a flag invests


... we played that the player who has just lost their flag in step 2 could immediately invest in step 3.

What then happened was that the person who just lost their flag invested in that country and immediately took it back (usually only needing a couple of million to do so).

But we did speculate what would happen if they stole someone else's flag (especially a player to their right).

Any thoughts ?


N.

 
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Walther Gerdts
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The first possibility you mention is right. A player just having lost his flag cannot be an additional investor in the same turn. The consequences would be the one's you explain in 2. and 3. And it is not desirable to allow taking back government instantly, because that would work sort of generally deterrent on taking over flags.

Sorry that the short rules are somewhat misleading on that point, it was my experience that it had to be made clear quite often when demonstrating the game in Essen.

Cheers
Mac
 
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Seth Jaffee
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MacGerdts wrote:
it is not desirable to allow taking back government instantly, because that would work sort of generally deterrent on taking over flags.

Right, they can't re-take control of a country immediately. If they're on your left they have to wait about 30 seconds.

That's supposed to be a joke, referring to how the player to your left gets the investor token next, and can buy back the country at the next opportnity, which often appears to be 'real soon'
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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I'm working from memory here, but I thought that the full rules were clear on the point - that the countries' flags *only* pass to new owners at the END of the Investor phase. So step 3 - buy if you don't run a country - happens first, then flags are re-assigned, THEN if you're left without a flag you have to wait until the next Investor phase.
 
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Nick Fisk
United Kingdom
Stoke on Trent
Staffordshire
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Come on you Seagulls! Sami Hyppia's Blue & White army!
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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RDewsbery wrote:
I'm working from memory here, but I thought that the full rules were clear on the point - that the countries' flags *only* pass to new owners at the END of the Investor phase. So step 3 - buy if you don't run a country - happens first, then flags are re-assigned, THEN if you're left without a flag you have to wait until the next Investor phase.


Good point.

 
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Daran The Great
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We also made this mistake, although I tried to check the rules whether it was allowed. If/when there is another printrun, add the exchange of flags as a step 4 in the investor phase?

All in all a great game and this wasn't a serious issue during gameplay. Nevertheless, good to know for the next time.
 
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