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Subject: Differences from Spartacus rss

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Jeffrey Kelso
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The following information is based off of the rulebooks. I apologize in advance for any mistakes that may be made.

Simple Terminology changes:
Market Deck = Recruit Deck
Plot Deck = Intrigue Deck
Hope Coins = Gold
Triumph = Favor
Mission Commander = Host
Hero = Gladiator
Student = Slave
Revolution Points = Influence
Training Cards = Equipment Cards
School Cards = House Cards
Event Cards = Scheme Cards

New to X-Men Mutant Revolution
Each School has a unique leader that is assigned to it. This leader comes with its own pre-painted miniature. This leader will be able to participate on missions if the conditions are right.
Each school comes with its own Charter Card. While on a mission, this card gives a special power to the Hero or Student that is representing that school. Leaders do not benefit from this power.
Each individual Hero and Student has a corresponding token, which is to be used while that Hero/Student is on a mission.
Leaders, Heroes, and Students have printed Attack Range and Power Token values.
A plot marker is used to keep track of spent plot points.
Power Tokens are used to activate character powers and advance the revolution.
A bidding dial is used in the Recruit Phase.
Mission Cards are used to setup a new mission scenario each Mission Phase.
Missions may add NPCs or interactive items to the map



Gameplay changes:
Setup
Each school will start with 1 random starter Hero, 2 random starter Students, and 5 Hope Coins.

Upkeep
You may choose up to 3 characters to recover. Injuries automatically heal on recovering targets, there is no die roll. If the recovering target is uninjured, they may gain a power token (up to their limit)
You can choose to have 6 different characters each spend 1 power token each to advance your school’s revolution.
You are awarded one Hope Coin for each Triumph token you have on a character.
The Plot Marker is set on top of your Revolution Marker at the end of the Upkeep phase.

Plot Phase
After drawing the three Plot Cards, players are given the opportunity to conduct only 1 action (Play an Event Card, Discard Plot Cards for Hope Coins, Use 1 Character power, or Pass). Play continues clockwise until all players have chosen to pass.
Plot Points spent move the Plot Marker closer to zero, even if you are lending another school some of your Plot Points.
Reaction Cards have Plot costs, but you may not receive support to pay that cost.

Recruit Phase
Only uninjured characters may be discarded for Hope Coins (sent on a Secret Mission).
A player cannot send more than two characters on a Secret Mission.
A player cannot send their last uninjured Hero or Student on a Secret Mission.
The bidding dial goes from 0-14.
If a player wins while bidding 10-14 hope coins in the winning round, they will immediately receive 1 Plot Card as a bonus.
Any Training Cards that are won must immediately be assigned to a Hero or Student.
Each Hero or Student can only be assigned one Training Card.
Training Cards are attached to the Hero or Student. If the Hero or Student is traded away or discarded, the attached training card goes with them.

Mission Phase
The current Mission Commander reveals a new Mission from the Mission Deck.
After the Mission has been revealed, there will be a bid for the new Mission Commander.
The Mission Commander must invite each and every school to the mission.
A School cannot send their leader on a mission unless they have no uninjured Heroes or Students (unless the mission allows it).
If only 1 school chooses to accept the mission invite, the mission is immediately failed.
Each school only has one Blue, Green, and Red die. These are used to track their character’s current Attack, Defense, and Speed levels. Combat rolls are made with black or white dice.
The player who wins the initiative roll selects the character that will go first. Play will proceed clockwise.
During your turn, you may take two actions (Move, Attack, Special Action). You are able to perform the same action twice on your turn, however, your two attacks cannot both target the same character (unless you have a special power that allows this)
Special Actions involve using a characters special power or interacting with mission objectives.
A character may activate its special power multiple times during the same action, as long as it spends 1 power token each time it activates.
A school may activate its charter card ability multiple times per action, but must pay 1 power token from the school’s leader each time.
After all characters have taken a turn, the Mission Commander must take control of any NPC mission characters on the board. These characters must be moved at least 1 space, if able. If the NPC can move in such a way that allows it to attack a player, it must move and attack.
If the Mission Commander is the only player left in the current mission, control of the NPCs is given to the player who rolls the highest amount on three dice.
NPC mission characters always roll the same amount of attack and defense dice, no matter how much damage they have taken.
School Token are used to denote damage done to NPC mission characters.
Defeated Students lose all Power Tokens and Triumph Tokens. If only one stat was reduced to 0, then the controlling school needs to pay the Student’s Hope Value (including attached Training Card) or discard them. The same happens if 2 stats are reduced to 0, but the student will also be assigned an injured token. If all 3 stats are reduced to 0, then the Student must be discarded.
If the student has 1 or 2 of its stats reduced to 0, and the controlling school does not pay the Hope Value for that student, another school may pay that Student’s Hope Value to gain that Student and any attached Training Card and/or Injury Token. This can only be done if the school defeated that student in the mission.
Defeated Heroes follow the same general rules as defeated students except that they always cause the school to lose 1 Revolution Point and can never be recruited by another school.
If 3 consecutive mission turns happen without any players attacking or performing special actions, the mission ends in a failure.
Defeated Leaders follow the same rules as defeated Heroes. As the leader has no Hope Value and cannot be discarded, the School loses 6 Hope Coins. If the leader has all three stats reduced to 0, the school loses an additional revolution point (total of -2).
Triumph Tokens are given to characters that are still in play at the end of a successful mission, but only if the also receive at least 1 Revolution Point as a mission reward.
A character that is already holding a Triumph Token cannot be awarded another.
The game ends when only one school has 6 Revolution Points at the end of the Mission Phase.
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Greg Lott
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Since it's Wizkids, I expect a pretty lazy effort. That said, I'm totally buying it.
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Ted Soper
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ferris1971 wrote:
Since it's Wizkids, I expect a pretty lazy effort. That said, I'm totally buying it.
meeple
I agree with you, except I don't want to reward bad game design. So Ill wait to purchase until I see some reviews.
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Jason Preder
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I'm also curious as to whether they actually paid for a license to the Spartacus game design or not.
I understand that borrowing mechanics from other games is quite common, but they are basically advertising this game as "Marvel Spartacus" and riding on the success of Spartacus.

It's one thing to say it's like Spartacus, but to say "based on" without giving GF9 their due is pretty underhanded.

 
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Jeffrey Kelso
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Gale force nine is given plenty of credit. For example http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2015/04/30/x-men-mutant-revolut... and http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2014/11/20/wizkids-and-gale-for...

I don't see this as being any different from when they got the rights to use the X-Wing engine to make Star Trek and D&D Attack Wing.
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Jason Preder
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jkelso1 wrote:
Gale force nine is given plenty of credit. For example http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2015/04/30/x-men-mutant-revolut... and http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2014/11/20/wizkids-and-gale-for...

I don't see this as being any different from when they got the rights to use the X-Wing engine to make Star Trek and D&D Attack Wing.
Excellent, this is the article I was looking for. I had not realized it was actually sanctioned by GF9. I might actually look into this one.
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Edwin Santoni
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Hmm still doesn't seem to differ that much from Spartacus, not sure if I really want to bother yet.
 
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Jason Preder
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PanzerKraken wrote:
Hmm still doesn't seem to differ that much from Spartacus, not sure if I really want to bother yet.
I actually looked over the components at some of the provided links and will definitely be taking a pass on this one.
It really looks like a hurry job on graphic design and component quality.

Nice try Wizkids....
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Andrew Wodzianski
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I think Spartacus is a perfect meld of game mechanics with theme (ie the television show's 1 & 2 seasons). I just can't wrap my head around those mechanics with the theme 'Mutant Revolution.'
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navajas
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PanzerKraken wrote:
Hmm still doesn't seem to differ that much from Spartacus, not sure if I really want to bother yet.
For those of us who LOVE Spartacus and have 6 and 9 year old sons who would probably enjoy the game, it's very cool to have an option to play the system without teaching little kids to stand up and blurt out, "Take that!!! Jupiter's COCK... RIGHT UP your ass, baby!!!", like their dad, uncle and friends do after beer #5 on nerd nights.


Just sayin'.
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Daniel Souza
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drewcula wrote:
I think Spartacus is a perfect meld of game mechanics with theme (ie the television show's 1 & 2 seasons). I just can't wrap my head around those mechanics with the theme 'Mutant Revolution.'
Agree entirely.

One of the most awesome features of the arena phase in Spartacus is that not only it is not cooperative and you get to decapitate your opponents' gladiators, but you also get to bet on it. From what I saw, they got rid of it completely in this game. A major no-no for me.
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Jeffrey Kelso
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MilkFromACow wrote:
I actually looked over the components at some of the provided links and will definitely be taking a pass on this one.
It really looks like a hurry job on graphic design and component quality.

Nice try Wizkids....
I actually prefer the components in X-men. Each individual Hero and student comes with its own unique hex (50 unique hexes). The 4 leaders are pre-painted miniatures. These are in contrast to the generic, unpainted gladiators that are used to represent gladiators or slaves.

The dice have larger pips than Spartacus.

I prefer the bidding dials over grabbing a handful of "gold" and then having to count it up to make sure no one is lying.

The board, although not as pretty to look at, is made of thicker stock. It has places to set your card decks, and places to set your stat dice, which I also personally think is better at giving you a good look at the remaining stats of your opponents.

I see no drop in quality on the Heroes, Students, or training cards.

However, X-Men's Hope Coins are certainly smaller than the gold counterparts, although a case could be made to say that smaller coins on the school card take up less room. The plot, reaction, and mission cards have no real images on them. The board is basically just a grass field.
 
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Jeffrey Kelso
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danielcs wrote:


Agree entirely.

One of the most awesome features of the arena phase in Spartacus is that not only it is not cooperative and you get to decapitate your opponents' gladiators, but you also get to bet on it. From what I saw, they got rid of it completely in this game. A major no-no for me.
Bidding has certainly not gone away. The "Showdown!", "Schism", and "Tournament" mission all involve just two schools fighting each other. The other schools bet on which character will win that mission.

With regards to decapitations, you can theme it that way if you'd like. In both games, regardless of how you theme it, you are simply removing that character from the game if all their stats are reduced to 0. The only exception is that Leaders cannot be removed from the game.

The other missions are only cooperative if the players choose to play that way. You are actually encouraged to take out other players as the owner will have to pay their cost. If the owner can't pay it (or chooses not to) you can pay that cost to steal them to your school.
 
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Jason Preder
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jkelso1 wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
I actually looked over the components at some of the provided links and will definitely be taking a pass on this one.
It really looks like a hurry job on graphic design and component quality.

Nice try Wizkids....
I actually prefer the components in X-men. Each individual Hero and student comes with its own unique hex (50 unique hexes). The 4 leaders are pre-painted miniatures. These are in contrast to the generic, unpainted gladiators that are used to represent gladiators or slaves.

The dice have larger pips than Spartacus.

I prefer the bidding dials over grabbing a handful of "gold" and then having to count it up to make sure no one is lying.

The board, although not as pretty to look at, is made of thicker stock. It has places to set your card decks, and places to set your stat dice, which I also personally think is better at giving you a good look at the remaining stats of your opponents.

I see no drop in quality on the Heroes, Students, or training cards.

However, X-Men's Hope Coins are certainly smaller than the gold counterparts, although a case could be made to say that smaller coins on the school card take up less room. The plot, reaction, and mission cards have no real images on them. The board is basically just a grass field.
Most the prepainted miniatures are garbage. Wizkids is no exception, as their clix type minis are mediocre at best. Spartacus doesn't have amazing minis, but they are pretty solid and more thematic. I've had some of my painted by a very talented friend, so I"m sure the quality far surpasses anything out of a WizKids box.

Larger pips on dice? Seriously? Anyhow, we use our own dice, because we actually have slightly modified some of the arena combat with different dice to help with overpowered characters and rolling too many 1's, etc., something I wish they would alter with a future expansion.

I love the quality, thickness, and thematic feel of Spartacus coins. If you're worried about someone cheating you on a bid in Spartacus, you're probably missing the point. It is a game of treachery. Watch your back and trust no one.

Saying the game board is unpleasant but has better stock is about as good as saying they provided a bread cutting board with hand drawn images. No theme here, just another short cut. I don't need a board to lay out some cards. Why have a board at all?

I can pretty much guarantee the card quality isn't that of Spartacus, but I guess you'll find that out when you buy your copy.

I do enjoy the XMen property, which is why I instantly had to check this out, but I don't think WizKids spent any real time developing this..they just seemed to have taken certain elements and slapped them on a poor design.

What is most interesting about this, is that this Xmen game is what I thought Spartacus would be when I first Demoed it at GenCon. I really thought it would be a bad game slapped on a TV property. They proved me and just about everyone who played the demo wrong. I doubt anyone playtesting Xmen would do the same..I'm sure they'd move to the next best thing.
 
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Jeffrey Kelso
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MilkFromACow wrote:
...
You are more than welcome to have your opinions on the two games, so please don't see this as any sort of personal attack.

I actually have both games right here in front of me. I just wished to offer up a counter argument from someone who owns both games for anyone who might visit these forums to make decisions on whether to purchase a certain game or not.

You do however talk about how you have replaced or otherwise enhanced the stock components of the Spartacus game (painting minis and replacing dice). Both can be done just as easily in this game. I simply added the counter argument for those that may not want to paint or don't have a friend who would volunteer their time and talents to do so.

The cards felt to be the same to me.

I'm a bit unsure about your last paragraph. Why do you assume that people will not enjoy this game, even though there are people on this forum who have played both games and claim this to be a better game, in their opinions. It is the Spartacus game that you like so much, with some (in my opinion, welcomed) changes, and a re-theme.
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Jason Preder
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jkelso1 wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
...
You are more than welcome to have your opinions on the two games, so please don't see this as any sort of personal attack.

I actually have both games right here in front of me. I just wished to offer up a counter argument from someone who owns both games for anyone who might visit these forums to make decisions on whether to purchase a certain game or not.

You do however talk about how you have replaced or otherwise enhanced the stock components of the Spartacus game (painting minis and replacing dice). Both can be done just as easily in this game. I simply added the counter argument for those that may not want to paint or don't have a friend who would volunteer their time and talents to do so.

The cards felt to be the same to me.

I'm a bit unsure about your last paragraph. Why do you assume that people will not enjoy this game, even though there are people on this forum who have played both games and claim this to be a better game, in their opinions. It is the Spartacus game that you like so much, with some (in my opinion, welcomed) changes, and a re-theme.
Your counter points and follow up are completely valid. I was offering up the same sort of counterpoints, except I feel more strongly that Xmen is a subpar offering. There are always exceptions and groups that like other things..for example, one of my local game stores will not even carry Spartacus due to the mature theme (ridiculous I know).

I also feel that this was a wasted opportunity by WizKids to do something really awesome, and I think they really fell short.
 
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MilkFromACow wrote:


I also feel that this was a wasted opportunity by WizKids to do something really awesome, and I think they really fell short.
Color me shocked. (Not really, see post #2 in this thread)
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Daniel Drickman
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MilkFromACow wrote:
jkelso1 wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
...
You are more than welcome to have your opinions on the two games, so please don't see this as any sort of personal attack.

I actually have both games right here in front of me. I just wished to offer up a counter argument from someone who owns both games for anyone who might visit these forums to make decisions on whether to purchase a certain game or not.

You do however talk about how you have replaced or otherwise enhanced the stock components of the Spartacus game (painting minis and replacing dice). Both can be done just as easily in this game. I simply added the counter argument for those that may not want to paint or don't have a friend who would volunteer their time and talents to do so.

The cards felt to be the same to me.

I'm a bit unsure about your last paragraph. Why do you assume that people will not enjoy this game, even though there are people on this forum who have played both games and claim this to be a better game, in their opinions. It is the Spartacus game that you like so much, with some (in my opinion, welcomed) changes, and a re-theme.
Your counter points and follow up are completely valid. I was offering up the same sort of counterpoints, except I feel more strongly that Xmen is a subpar offering. There are always exceptions and groups that like other things..for example, one of my local game stores will not even carry Spartacus due to the mature theme (ridiculous I know).

I also feel that this was a wasted opportunity by WizKids to do something really awesome, and I think they really fell short.
Have you played the game?
 
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DanKD wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
jkelso1 wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
...
You are more than welcome to have your opinions on the two games, so please don't see this as any sort of personal attack.

I actually have both games right here in front of me. I just wished to offer up a counter argument from someone who owns both games for anyone who might visit these forums to make decisions on whether to purchase a certain game or not.

You do however talk about how you have replaced or otherwise enhanced the stock components of the Spartacus game (painting minis and replacing dice). Both can be done just as easily in this game. I simply added the counter argument for those that may not want to paint or don't have a friend who would volunteer their time and talents to do so.

The cards felt to be the same to me.

I'm a bit unsure about your last paragraph. Why do you assume that people will not enjoy this game, even though there are people on this forum who have played both games and claim this to be a better game, in their opinions. It is the Spartacus game that you like so much, with some (in my opinion, welcomed) changes, and a re-theme.
Your counter points and follow up are completely valid. I was offering up the same sort of counterpoints, except I feel more strongly that Xmen is a subpar offering. There are always exceptions and groups that like other things..for example, one of my local game stores will not even carry Spartacus due to the mature theme (ridiculous I know).

I also feel that this was a wasted opportunity by WizKids to do something really awesome, and I think they really fell short.
Have you played the game?
I have seen the components and read the rules. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play the game unless someone else has me play their copy. I feel that I own and play enough games to be able to gauge the quality and whether or not I will like it. There are plenty of other exciting prospects that are much more worth my money and time, especially with GenCon a few months away.
 
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A gaming friend of mine has Spartacus and we really enjoyed it. When I heard that X-Men: MR was a reskinned Spartacus, I instantly put it on my wish list. I do not own this game yet, but I will. I think it's great that our gaming group will have the choice between both.

BUT, from what I have seen so far, I am slightly disappointed in WizKids for the "packaging" of this game. Not the literal packaging, but just the overall graphic design of it.

I play Marvel Dice Masters and I noticed that a lot of the artwork featured in X-Men: MR is basically the same that was used in MDM which is not even original game art. Most, if not all, of the art is just ripped directly from comic books without even any credit to the individual artists.

I would have preferred if WizKids would have taken the time to comission a handful of Comic Book artists to do original artwork for this game.

But honestly, it's a minor gripe.. it just screams "laziness" to me, that's all.

I'm still very much looking forward to adding this game to my library and moving ahead with pimping it out a little.

I want to thank the OP for the comprehensive comparison between X-Men: Mutant Revolution and Spartacus: A Game of Blood & Treachery
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jkelso1 wrote:
The following information is based off of the rulebooks. I apologize in advance for any mistakes that may be made.

Simple Terminology changes:
Market Deck = Recruit Deck
Plot Deck = Intrigue Deck
Hope Coins = Gold
Triumph = Favor
Mission Commander = Host
Hero = Gladiator
Student = Slave
Revolution Points = Influence
Training Cards = Equipment Cards
School Cards = House Cards
Event Cards = Scheme Cards

New to X-Men Mutant Revolution
Each School has a unique leader that is assigned to it. This leader comes with its own pre-painted miniature. This leader will be able to participate on missions if the conditions are right.
Each school comes with its own Charter Card. While on a mission, this card gives a special power to the Hero or Student that is representing that school. Leaders do not benefit from this power.
Each individual Hero and Student has a corresponding token, which is to be used while that Hero/Student is on a mission.
Leaders, Heroes, and Students have printed Attack Range and Power Token values.
A plot marker is used to keep track of spent plot points.
Power Tokens are used to activate character powers and advance the revolution.
A bidding dial is used in the Recruit Phase.
Mission Cards are used to setup a new mission scenario each Mission Phase.
Missions may add NPCs or interactive items to the map



Gameplay changes:
Setup
Each school will start with 1 random starter Hero, 2 random starter Students, and 5 Hope Coins.

Upkeep
You may choose up to 3 characters to recover. Injuries automatically heal on recovering targets, there is no die roll. If the recovering target is uninjured, they may gain a power token (up to their limit)
You can choose to have 6 different characters each spend 1 power token each to advance your school’s revolution.
You are awarded one Hope Coin for each Triumph token you have on a character.
The Plot Marker is set on top of your Revolution Marker at the end of the Upkeep phase.

Plot Phase
After drawing the three Plot Cards, players are given the opportunity to conduct only 1 action (Play an Event Card, Discard Plot Cards for Hope Coins, Use 1 Character power, or Pass). Play continues clockwise until all players have chosen to pass.
Plot Points spent move the Plot Marker closer to zero, even if you are lending another school some of your Plot Points.
Reaction Cards have Plot costs, but you may not receive support to pay that cost.

Recruit Phase
Only uninjured characters may be discarded for Hope Coins (sent on a Secret Mission).
A player cannot send more than two characters on a Secret Mission.
A player cannot send their last uninjured Hero or Student on a Secret Mission.
The bidding dial goes from 0-14.
If a player wins while bidding 10-14 hope coins in the winning round, they will immediately receive 1 Plot Card as a bonus.
Any Training Cards that are won must immediately be assigned to a Hero or Student.
Each Hero or Student can only be assigned one Training Card.
Training Cards are attached to the Hero or Student. If the Hero or Student is traded away or discarded, the attached training card goes with them.

Mission Phase
The current Mission Commander reveals a new Mission from the Mission Deck.
After the Mission has been revealed, there will be a bid for the new Mission Commander.
The Mission Commander must invite each and every school to the mission.
A School cannot send their leader on a mission unless they have no uninjured Heroes or Students (unless the mission allows it).
If only 1 school chooses to accept the mission invite, the mission is immediately failed.
Each school only has one Blue, Green, and Red die. These are used to track their character’s current Attack, Defense, and Speed levels. Combat rolls are made with black or white dice.
The player who wins the initiative roll selects the character that will go first. Play will proceed clockwise.
During your turn, you may take two actions (Move, Attack, Special Action). You are able to perform the same action twice on your turn, however, your two attacks cannot both target the same character (unless you have a special power that allows this)
Special Actions involve using a characters special power or interacting with mission objectives.
A character may activate its special power multiple times during the same action, as long as it spends 1 power token each time it activates.
A school may activate its charter card ability multiple times per action, but must pay 1 power token from the school’s leader each time.
After all characters have taken a turn, the Mission Commander must take control of any NPC mission characters on the board. These characters must be moved at least 1 space, if able. If the NPC can move in such a way that allows it to attack a player, it must move and attack.
If the Mission Commander is the only player left in the current mission, control of the NPCs is given to the player who rolls the highest amount on three dice.
NPC mission characters always roll the same amount of attack and defense dice, no matter how much damage they have taken.
School Token are used to denote damage done to NPC mission characters.
Defeated Students lose all Power Tokens and Triumph Tokens. If only one stat was reduced to 0, then the controlling school needs to pay the Student’s Hope Value (including attached Training Card) or discard them. The same happens if 2 stats are reduced to 0, but the student will also be assigned an injured token. If all 3 stats are reduced to 0, then the Student must be discarded.
If the student has 1 or 2 of its stats reduced to 0, and the controlling school does not pay the Hope Value for that student, another school may pay that Student’s Hope Value to gain that Student and any attached Training Card and/or Injury Token. This can only be done if the school defeated that student in the mission.
Defeated Heroes follow the same general rules as defeated students except that they always cause the school to lose 1 Revolution Point and can never be recruited by another school.
If 3 consecutive mission turns happen without any players attacking or performing special actions, the mission ends in a failure.
Defeated Leaders follow the same rules as defeated Heroes. As the leader has no Hope Value and cannot be discarded, the School loses 6 Hope Coins. If the leader has all three stats reduced to 0, the school loses an additional revolution point (total of -2).
Triumph Tokens are given to characters that are still in play at the end of a successful mission, but only if the also receive at least 1 Revolution Point as a mission reward.
A character that is already holding a Triumph Token cannot be awarded another.
The game ends when only one school has 6 Revolution Points at the end of the Mission Phase.
How do you gain Power Tokens and Plot Points? Presumably various cards in game only?
 
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Andrew Parks
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Somerset
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Dungeon Alliance Champions (October 2019)
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Your Plot Points are reset every turn, at the end of Upkeep, to equal your current Revolution Points.

During Upkeep, you can choose up to 3 of your characters to "recover". Each time one of your characters recovers, they either remove 1 Wound Token or restore 1 spent Power Token.
 
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