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Subject: Best Possible Moves Guide rss

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ryan sung
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4 PLAYER GAME
As first player:
As first player in the start of a 4 player game, you have a great advantage. There are many ways to play to your advantage as first player here:

Option 1:
1) Always play flowers.
2) Someone else will inevitably bid. That player most likely has safe cards, so add that number to your bid. Everyone else who bids this round means their bids are safe as well. For example: assuming everyone has played 2 cards, and player 2 calls a bid of 3. Someone else calls a bid of 4-6, its obvious that everyone who places those bids have safe cards. Since you have the last say (besides player 2 again), bid accordingly to the safe cards and player 2 won't have the guts to outbid that.
3) If the bid goes higher than your safe amount than just skip. It's likely they will hit a skull.

Option 2:
1) Play a skull.
2) Bid 1. By the time the bid reaches you again, it will be 2-3. Pass.
3) They hit your skull and lose a piece.

ONE ON ONE
As first player:
When it comes down to one on one, you have the advantage as first player and your chances of winning are slightly higher than your opponent's.

DEFENSIVELY:
1) Play a skull.
2) Bid 1. Opponent will have a tough time but will inevitably bid 2.
3) Opponent hits your skull and loses a random piece.

NEXT ROUND, OPPONENT IS FIRST:
1) Play a flower.
2) Opponent has most likely played a skull, because of how well your strategy went, he realizes he has to either bid (but he won't because he's not that confident now that he's been shaken), so he will place a flower.
3) Bid 2 and win the game assuming you have a point already.
3) If by any chance he did the same strategy with the skull and bid 1, skip the bid and he would have lost another piece.

OFFENSIVELY:
1) ALWAYS play flower.
2) ALWAYS outbid opponent so you will go first again next round and do the same. If you find that your opponent keeps putting skulls for you, go defensively as I listed above.
3) Following these steps. makes sure you will win 75% of the time.
 
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Kirk Monsen
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so you are saying the first player should always play a skull and open bidding, while everyone else should play flowers?

not sure I agree with that strategy.

one pattern I have noticed, is the turn after someone wins a bid, most everyone plays skulls. other than that, it is all situational.
 
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mfl134
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MunchWolf wrote:
so you are saying the first player should always play a skull and open bidding, while everyone else should play flowers?

not sure I agree with that strategy.

one pattern I have noticed, is the turn after someone wins a bid, most everyone plays skulls. other than that, it is all situational.

optimal strategy will alter greatly based on group think.
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mfl134
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You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?
 
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ryan sung
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MunchWolf wrote:
so you are saying the first player should always play a skull and open bidding, while everyone else should play flowers?

not sure I agree with that strategy.

one pattern I have noticed, is the turn after someone wins a bid, most everyone plays skulls. other than that, it is all situational.

My guide covers situations on an AVERAGE player scale. These are the actions of an average group.

If you are the first player in a 6 player group, if you play a skull and start the bid at 1, SOMEONE, ANYONE in the group will outbid you. I guarantee that over 75% of the time, someone out of the six people will bid 2 over your 1. With that said, whoever wins the bet will statistically pick your card because you were eager to place a bid first as first player and they will think you placed a flower but you didn't.

 
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ryan sung
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mfl134 wrote:
You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?

Say you're playing with a group of 5 other friends.. You place a card down and you call a bid of 1. SOMEBODY is going to outbid you. Why? Because they don't want you to get a free flower point. Little do they know, you placed a skull and not a flower.

It's an early game psych out to make one of the players lose one of the cards. It's a great first move.

In the off chance that nobody outbids your 1, it's still an advantage to you even if you hit your own skull and lose a piece because now you know the information that everyone has started off defensively by having a skulls face down, and you get to go first again next round.
 
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ryan sung
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mfl134 wrote:
You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?

The OPTIMAL strategy for YOURSELF is to play a skull first. The AVERAGE PLAYER will not. The AVERAGE PLAYER will likely put a rose because the AVERAGE PLAYER will want to bid, and not skip their turn. Being the first player gives you a high amount of priority that you don't want to pass up.

The AVERAGE PLAYER will not play a skull and then start bid 1. Unless they have played this game 100 times. I guarantee you that.
 
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mfl134
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kclips wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?

Say you're playing with a group of 5 other friends.. You place a card down and you call a bid of 1. SOMEBODY is going to outbid you. Why? Because they don't want you to get a free flower point. Little do they know, you placed a skull and not a flower.

It's an early game psych out to make one of the players lose one of the cards. It's a great first move.

In the off chance that nobody outbids your 1, it's still an advantage to you even if you hit your own skull and lose a piece because now you know the information that everyone has started off defensively by having a skulls face down, and you get to go first again next round.

Agreed, but if somebody does it every time, why wouldn't you assume they have a skull?
 
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mfl134
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kclips wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?

The OPTIMAL strategy for YOURSELF is to play a skull first. The AVERAGE PLAYER will not. The AVERAGE PLAYER will likely put a rose because the AVERAGE PLAYER will want to bid, and not skip their turn. Being the first player gives you a high amount of priority that you don't want to pass up.

The AVERAGE PLAYER will not play a skull and then start bid 1. Unless they have played this game 100 times. I guarantee you that.

So this is a strategy guide for playing against players who can't comprehend the same strategies?
 
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ryan sung
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mfl134 wrote:
kclips wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?

The OPTIMAL strategy for YOURSELF is to play a skull first. The AVERAGE PLAYER will not. The AVERAGE PLAYER will likely put a rose because the AVERAGE PLAYER will want to bid, and not skip their turn. Being the first player gives you a high amount of priority that you don't want to pass up.

The AVERAGE PLAYER will not play a skull and then start bid 1. Unless they have played this game 100 times. I guarantee you that.

So this is a strategy guide for playing against players who can't comprehend the same strategies?

This is a strategy guide for whoever is actually reading this. The other players/your friends you will be playing with aren't necessarily going to go on this board and read this, right? These are hidden strategies and best case scenarios that only YOU have read, so you can use them against them.

An average player will not take risks like playing a skull and calling a bid right away. An average player won't put think of putting a skull on top of a flower and then pretend to act like they are going to bid, but not. An average player won't play flowers and not consider other players bid actions as safe counts to call.
 
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mfl134
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kclips wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
kclips wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
You stated that optimal strategy for the first player is the play a skull and then you state that other people should assume that the first player bidding should be interpreted as a rose. huh?

The OPTIMAL strategy for YOURSELF is to play a skull first. The AVERAGE PLAYER will not. The AVERAGE PLAYER will likely put a rose because the AVERAGE PLAYER will want to bid, and not skip their turn. Being the first player gives you a high amount of priority that you don't want to pass up.

The AVERAGE PLAYER will not play a skull and then start bid 1. Unless they have played this game 100 times. I guarantee you that.

So this is a strategy guide for playing against players who can't comprehend the same strategies?

This is a strategy guide for whoever is actually reading this. The other players/your friends you will be playing with aren't necessarily going to go on this board and read this, right? These are hidden strategies and best case scenarios that only YOU have read, so you can use them against them.

An average player will not take risks like playing a skull and calling a bid right away. An average player won't put think of putting a skull on top of a flower and then pretend to act like they are going to bid, but not. An average player won't play flowers and not consider other players bid actions as safe counts to call.

I think we play with very different "average" players.

you list the player types, here is the amount of people I see in each of them...

5% - The high bidder
10% - The scaredy cat
5% - The eager winner
80% - The bluffer

and I don't mean the bluffer always bluffs, but they are the person who you never quite know what they are playing because they mix it up. If you are playing with people who aren't mixing it up, I'd expect them to never win.

Perhaps calling this "things to consider" would be better than "Best possible moves guide". That is the beauty of this game, there aren't best possible moves. There are moves that will guarantee you to lose.

There is probably lots of discussion to talk about end game, or just player with 3 players, which is super cutthroat.

My experience doesn't seem to match yours at all.
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Andy Mesa
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kclips wrote:
I guarantee that over 75% of the time
60% of the time it works every time.
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A C
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Yeh, some interesting ideas, but i'm not convinced at all on this.

And i think when you're saying "average player", what you actually mean is "inexperienced player". As soon as a player understands the game and sees other players bluffing and scoring points, i guarantee that they will adapt their own strategies and not be so easy to predict.
 
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Clive Jones

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Wow. BGG tells me I play a session of this game once a month or so. I've played the game with countless different people, including teaching it to at least two dozen new players.

Anyone using strategies as simplistic as those suggested by the original poster would have been taken to the cleaners by almost all those players, even the ones who'd never played before.

It's a bluffing game, so obviously, you should bluff, and obviously you should take into account that other players might be bluffing!
 
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Ryucoo
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The average player is not more likely to play a rose first vs a skull. That's a bad assumption to base a strategy on.
 
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