Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
72 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » Variants

Subject: New Expansion - Ogre Kingdoms! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Pavel Benc
msg tools
There is no official expansion, so I decided to make my own - Ogres
I hope you like it and I look forward to your ideas.

Ogre Kingdoms
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ndv9ycpctxnkj0a/AABFI_C2eW5RCO0kV...

+ little teaser (comes in May)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a2j6cefz05ye0pr/AAAaUk8WMkNN3bX3d...


Progress:

24.4. Version 1.1
7.5. Version 1.2
5.6. Version 2.0
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Bosmans
Belgium
Mechelen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This game is so good it is a shame FFG is not supporting it like it should be.

12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGS
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Warhammer: Diskwars
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ben_Bos wrote:
This game is so good it is a shame FFG is not supporting it like it should be.



Amen
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
It's funny, there are actually already user made armies for the Tomb Kings and the Ogre Kingdoms. I put together the Tomb Kings army and have it in a Vassal module.

I took a brief look at your army and it looks better put together than the last Ogre Kingdoms army I saw. I may put this army into the Vassal Module with the tomb kings when I have time/if you give permission but I'll probably want to review it a bit more/test it some before distributing it.

One quick note though; without having looked too hard, I imagine that you could get by without making a special rule that lets Ogres ignore the size restrictions. They do have access to two exceptionally cheap small units. Or perhaps it could be a special quality for an Ogre hero. As a matter of style/principle I think it ideal that everything that you need to know about a disk/army be written on the disks and not have unwritten extra abilities.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Velensk wrote:

I took a brief look at your army and it looks better put together than the last Ogre Kingdoms army I saw. I may put this army into the Vassal Module with the tomb kings when I have time/if you give permission but I'll probably want to review it a bit more/test it some before distributing it.


It'd be great Where could I find your Tomb Kings?

Velensk wrote:

One quick note though; without having looked too hard, I imagine that you could get by without making a special rule that lets Ogres ignore the size restrictions. They do have access to two exceptionally cheap small units. Or perhaps it could be a special quality for an Ogre hero. As a matter of style/principle I think it ideal that everything that you need to know about a disk/army be written on the disks and not have unwritten extra abilities.


The reason for this rule was that the armies which could be built without it were basicaly one scheme: 2 ogres and the rest (10-15pts) filled with cheap guys and either Firebelly or Butcher (and this half 'd be almost the same all the time) Basicaly I think that such armies would be very repetitive and that in comparison with official armies, there'd be much less options and variety.

Well, I didn't want to place it on disks, I didn't have much place for it and I took it like it's part of army building, which takes place before any abilities written on disks, but, yes it's not the most elegant solution.

From what you wrote I came to an idea. It would be some kind of rule (like a part of rulebook) which would have more clear and diskwars like nature, for example: Add. Customizing army- When building Ogre regiment, your ogre hero doesn't have to recruit an equal or greater number of small disks than the total number of medium and large disks.
The second option is placing some ability (Ogre Leader?) on hero disks, but again I'm not sure whether it's more elegant since all standing abilities have effect only in battle, not during recruiting or anything else.

What do you think about it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Warhammer:_Diskwars

It's in the 2X file. Mind the instructions to change it to .vmod if you want to use it for Vassal.

If feeling too limited in your army construction is the main problem, you could do what the other Ogre kingdoms army did and have on the Ogre Bulls "counts as a small disk". Making an Ogre Hero keyword would also work though I don't really feel it's elegant.

EDIT: the ':' in the URL is throwing off the link and it doesn't know the escape character. You can get there by copying the URL into the bar though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicolas Vasquez
Chile
Santiago
flag msg tools
This looks so awesome

How do you print these ? Materials and stuff laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
fapepo wrote:
This looks so awesome

How do you print these ? Materials and stuff laugh


Thanks

I have just made these files, but I'm going to print them in the way of first testing the right size on black'n white print.
Once I got the right size I'll print it in the best quality possible, cut them and glue them on some reserve disks (possible buying new set), That's all
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
I could probably steal some time this week and make you a vassal module with your Ogre's in them. I'm somewhat busy with finals this week but next week I could even probably find the time to test with you.

In this fashion, you could get some testing in before needing to print and it'll be easier to make revisions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Velensk wrote:

If feeling too limited in your army construction is the main problem, you could do what the other Ogre kingdoms army did and have on the Ogre Bulls "counts as a small disk". Making an Ogre Hero keyword would also work though I don't really feel it's elegant.

Count as small disk is perhaps the best of such options, but I will have to look for space on Bulls and Leadbechers, otherwise I will let it as it is.


Velensk wrote:
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Warhammer:_Diskwars

It's in the 2X file. Mind the instructions to change it to .vmod if you want to use it for Vassal.

Tomb Kings are nice. It's funny we have similar ideas about command cards-liche priest-t.kings synergy there are some differences in units and specific abilities however. I especially like the new objectives (wilderness, yum!)

How does such a game through Vassal look like? I have never played one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Velensk wrote:
I could probably steal some time this week and make you a vassal module with your Ogre's in them. I'm somewhat busy with finals this week but next week I could even probably find the time to test with you.

In this fashion, you could get some testing in before needing to print and it'll be easier to make revisions.

That'd be great
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
Vassal is basically like a whiteboard with magnets shared by two players. It doesn't know anything about how the game is played but it can display all of the pieces and they can be moved around by the players.

Now the pieces can be made more complex (so that they show range radi, display tokens added to them, show the path they've taken in movement ect.) but it looks much like a normal game except that instead of flipping disks you're moving images of the disks over a virtual board.

EDIT: I've taken a bit more time to study your ogre's and I'm fairly impressed. I do have several suggestions/other feedback that I don't have time to give now but which I feel should be given before I take images for the module.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
So here's my feedback:

Ogre Kingdoms: Overall, I love the fact that while making the army have a ton of wounds you didn’t just leave it at that but did things with it. This looks like it could be quite fun both to play as and fight against. On the other hand, as an overall force it looks fairly weak (in terms of cost efficiency) with a few exceptions.

For Vassal: I’m going to need to know what size all these disks are. I can kind of guess for many of them but particularly for some of the heroes I have to ask (so, medium or large?). Also, as I’m not sure exactly how fast these disks are it’s a little hard to comment.

As a note: I know next to nothing about Warhammer Lore. I built the Tomb Kings with the help of an enthusiast who did know it, I merely shaped what I heard into disk wars concepts. As such my suggestions are all gameplay based.

Abilities/Command Cards:

Ogre Charge: This is brilliant. This both gives the ogres an appropriate impact and also a strong way to counterattack enemies who pin them (which is something big slow creatures with low counter and multiple wounds are likely to need).

Butcher: Another great skill to work with the way you have Ogres set up.

Aura of Flame: This is an incredibly powerful spell. Easily more devastating than any spell currently in the game. Similar spells are Fists of Mork and Vermintide but neither of them do as much damage and both of them hurt friend and foe alike. It is probably too strong. Now if this did friendly damage it’s still be very strong but it might be at least a little more controlled. In any case, I feel it should gain a drawback as rolling a 5-6 with this anywhere near a scrum can be instantly game winning even if your force is devastated.

Blood Gorger: Nice

Horde of the Maw: Very nice.

Trample ‘em!: A better but less reliable version of eager troops. Nice, and fitting.

Trollguts: Nice

Wall of Guts: A bit underwhelming compared to the other options. Normally slow cards are fairly powerful but I don’t think that this is a problem for the ogres. If you want an alternative, it could instead only apply to ogre disks with Ogre charge but also provide Guard 1.

Heros/Units:

Greasus Goldtooth: That’s a fantastic idea for an ability.

Bragg: No comment.

Golgfag Maneater: The term is ‘engaged’.

Skraug the Slaughterer: His abilities are a bit strong for his recruitment value. (A note on this, having disks that are strong for cost (or ‘above the jedi curve’ in MtG terms) is fine. It’s just a matter of choosing where you want it. Butcher is an incredibly strong ability as are flankers that show up without activations and a 6,4,6 with Frenzy is fearsome without an activation even if those flankers don’t have 5 damage frenzy. When you put this much strength in one place you get a point where it can be hard to balance the ogre armies who <can have gorgers show up after the enemy can no longer react to sacrifice itself taking out two+ enemies or pick off > and while they’re at it gain a powerful hero with butcher vs the ogre armies that don’t (kind of like how you’ll essentially never see an elf army without Shield of Saphery). As that tactic probably won’t be particularly fun to fight against, I’d suggest giving him a drawback in some form or a redesign.

Slaughter Master: Nice. Possibly slightly too expensive but I'd have to see the whole army in action to say.

Firebelly: I really like the ability. Though, I feel that it makes it so the ogre is probably a bit expensive for its cost. Now admittedly, Fire Aura makes it so they probably aren’t expensive enough but if it’s changed I suspect you’ll find these not living up to their cost.

Gnoblars: Please, give the two variants some difference in name. I think having two versions of it is nice and I think the unit works great with the rest of the army but for the sake of speaking of them it’d be nice to have an easy way to distinguish them. Also, the ability to visually distinguish between them would be nice for the ability to quickly read the battlefield.

Gorger: With Skraug these guys may be a bit too good, even at 11 points and no wounds. Without him, they probably won’t be worth the cost. If you look at the equivalent price no wound disks you have boar boyz (which can be combed for massive APD) Knights Panther (need I comment), Silver Helms, who both deal good APD and have the speed and swift to pick and survive their engagements, and Bloodcrushers who again can have immediate impact and gain a bit of survivability for their troubles. Flank is good, flank without activations is fantastic, but I don’t think that this has enough basic strength to be worthwhile as anything other than an undodgable multi disk sniper.

Iron Guts: I think these guys might be a touch weak for their cost. I think a cost of 10 would be more fitting. Hard to say though when you have access to the ogre command cards like trample’em though.

Leadbelchers: How fast are these guys? I like the design, but I think they might be a bit weak for their cost.

Ogre Bulls: I think these might be a touch weak for their cost. I think a cost of 8 would be more fitting. Again, command cards/synergies make it hard to say.

Mourfang Riders: I think I can definitely say that these guys will be weak for their cost (unless they are large). If you compare it to the various chariots in the game that have a similar statline Gyrocopter, Sky Cutter, mainly) you’ll see that it’s either slower or weaker, and doesn’t have a ranged attack. In my experience, those units have a hard time justifying their costs even with those disadvantages. Rather than make it cheaper though, I think that it could be made stronger. Maybe give it some impact damage or increase its toughness. or something.

Saber Tusks: No comment.

Scrap Launcher: This is a pretty weak artillery piece. As an artillery pice, the Rock lobber is not only objectively superior (despite being some of the weaker mainline artillery) and cheaper. It does have the interesting gimmick of being usable for impact though (I’m not sure how valuable that is). In any case, I think it could afford to have a buff.

Thundertusk: Oh wow. I somehow completely missed this one the last time I looked. All enemies within long range having their movement halved is a truly ridiculously strong ability ability. Even if you specified that their movement is rounded up and that it’s start their movement within long range, it’d still be a stupidly strong ability Also known as “I can engage you but you can’t engage me unless I let you”. I would strongly suggest, that you do specify that it’s rounded up, and that it’s only if you start your movement in range, and that you drop the range to medium. It’ll still be a very strong ability for limiting your foes options but it won’t be ‘everything within long range of my frontline moves like molasses until you can take down a 5,5,5(1). If the long range is that important (and I’m hoping it isn’t because trying to play around that will be a pain) perhaps it can just be ‘has movement -1’?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Velensk wrote:
So here's my feedback:

Ogre Kingdoms: Overall, I love the fact that while making the army have a ton of wounds you didn’t just leave it at that but did things with it. This looks like it could be quite fun both to play as and fight against. On the other hand, as an overall force it looks fairly weak (in terms of cost efficiency) with a few exceptions.

For Vassal: I’m going to need to know what size all these disks are. I can kind of guess for many of them but particularly for some of the heroes I have to ask (so, medium or large?). Also, as I’m not sure exactly how fast these disks are it’s a little hard to comment.

I added the sizes to the names of the files. All four heroes are Medium.
Large: Scraplauncher, Thundertusk
Medium: Ogre Bulls, Ironguts, Leadbelchers, Gorger, Mournfangs
Small: Gnoblars, Sabretusks, Butcher, Firebelly

As a force they are probably bit weaker and overprized, because it's very difficult to estimate (especially for this strange army with wounds everywhere) how well are they gonna fight and when someone makes some variant for a game he usually tends to overpower it at least a bit and so when I was unsure what cost to give I gave the higher option.

Abilities/Command Cards:

Aura of Flame: Someone commented on this card on FFG and it's probably quite striking problem. Well, when I created it, I looked (as with everything else) on existing parallels and balanced it from these 'checkppoints'.

For this card I took Fists of Mork and I thought - you have to come closer -- so +1 to d6-1, you have only one unit which can use it, there is no tough caster hero among Ogres, so when you lose Firebelly (usually 1, max 2) you are screwed -- further +1 to d6. However as you commented on it, I realized, that it's maybe not that simple and I took a look on mybe more similar card -Vermintide, which'd be much weaker than Aura of Flames. However I find Vermintide quite weak when compared to other exisiting cards, but maybe there will plenty of priests and casters in Skaven army, which'll be able to cast it positionaly (not the case for 1-2 firebellies)
Maybe giving it some potence to wound your units will solve the problem, because I agree that this card isn't fine.
Not mentioning the issue, Firebellies are dependant on these card.

Wall of Guts: A bit underwhelming compared to the other options. Normally slow cards are fairly powerful but I don’t think that this is a problem for the ogres. If you want an alternative, it could instead only apply to ogre disks with Ogre charge but also provide Guard 1.
I very much like the Guard idea.

Heros/Units:

Golgfag Maneater: (The term is ‘engaged’.)
In contact is usable gameplay term (sometimes meaning different thing than engaged) as well, but right, in this case is engaged the more frequent alternative.

Skraug the Slaughterer: You're right. I'll do stg for him


Gnoblars: Well at first it wastn't meant as two playable variants (and I don't think I'll find second gnoblars artwork of at least moderate quality, but if I do I'll think about it ). I just made two variants, considered which to use and came up to that I'd like to test them first, before deciding.

Gorger: I will see Skrag.

Iron Guts: It' difficult to say without trying. I was considering 10 or 11.

Leadbelchers: M (My friend, thought them weak as well and suggested removing slow)

Ogre Bulls: Same as with Ironguts, considered 8-9.

Mourfang Riders: I was afraid of them being too weak, but maybe I did let them as they are because I doň't like them very much thematicaly (biased ) I'll do stg for them.

Scrap Launcher: a buff.

Thundertusk: It was meant that you have to start within that range to suffer, and it'll be round up. From this I felt that medium'd have low impact, but long has maybe a too large impact on battlefield.
The option I came up to right now is making all enemies who come at Medium range lose half of their remaining flips.

I'm a bit time pressed, so I'll consider the problems more in depth on tomorow or later in the week. However thanks for feedback, there are always things one himself hardly sees when making such project
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
There is actually a difference between 'In contact' and 'engaged'. You are only engaged to enemies you are pinning or are pinned by. You can be in contact with an enemy that you are not pinning (if for example there is another enemy pinning the enemy you are touching and you are pinning that, then you are not engaged to the lower enemy even though you are 'in contact' with it).

For what it's worth, I don't consider Vermintide to be weak. Unlike fists of mork the damage is reliable and it has a higher max. Now, your odds of doing 3+ damage are considerably lower but even doing 2 damage in an area centered around yourself to all disks can be very powerful and for an ogre army, exceptionally powerful. Yours will average 3.5 and not even hurt your army (despite your army being relatively resistant to such things). Granted, Firebellies are pretty dependent on it but I think it' be a better design to make fireballs not as dependent on it and to give it some kind of drawback.

EDIT: I suspect you'll find that even at medium range, halving a disks movement is quite powerful. If it is insufficient, then granting it Ogre charge or impact seems fitting.

For the leadbelchers, maybe instead of losing slow, give them an extra counter attack. Makes it so that weaker things cannot pin them for free but still vulnerable to being overwhelmed once wounded.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Version 1.1 is here

To begin.
I was wrong, I searched the rulebook and In contact is not a gameplay term - there are only three positional terms: engaged, pinning and overlapping (which you described above)
I though that engaged = in the same engagement, but it's not so. In fact engaged describes perfectly what I wanted and that's that the disk you're pinning or which pins you is engaged with you (thx snipertroll!) I changed the terms on cards and disk accordingly.

I introduced two new abilities - Freeze (Thundertusk) which comes with new token and Ogre core (small disks solution)
I created one new unit - Yhetees - otherwise Tundertusk'd be the only one with Freeze ability.
I created one Gnoblar unit. (Surprisingly I found another good artwork, but realized I prefer only one Gnob)
I boosted some units, I nerfed some, changed prices (in fact almost all units are at least a bit modified)
I reworked two cards: Aura- It's d6-1 an hits even allies, and added Guard 1 to Wall of Guts, as Velensk suggested (good idea)
Thanks for suggestions Velensk!

I'm curious what you think about the new changes!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
That looks great. I especially love the Firebellies gaining stalwart, now they're pretty scary even without their burn everything card. Also, relentless is a great call for Gorgers as that makes their frenzy more useful without being nightmare inducing.

I'm more than willing to make a module with what you have there however I'd like to suggest two quick changes.

The first change is that I'd like to suggest that the ranged attack of the Thundertusk be a bit weaker. Freeze on a mobile medium ranged attack is tactically very powerful and 3 dice is pretty reliable chance to hit. I'd say that in general this attack is significantly more useful than that of that of the River Troll despite that one being a strait 1/3 chance to wound whenever you move. I'm not sure what kind of attack this represents but I feel that either less damage or fewer dice would be better balanced.

The second change is for the Yhehtee. Freeze is less useful when you have no ranged attack but it's still decently strong (particuarly given the way ogres look like they'll work). 4,4,5 is a slightly subpar statline for 8 but these creatures are very mobile with strider/flank/potential move boosts. I think they could use either a slightly higher price or a slightly weaker attack.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Modified.

Thundertusk has only 2 dices - it's a fact that with 3 his Freeze'd be almost certain.

Yhetees have only 3 counterattack now - Now they are more frail to being pinned - more similar to other flankers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
Alright, here is a beta version of the mod for you. For the moment I'm going to host it in my dropbox. Once it's gotten some testing I'll distribute it on the Vassal wiki.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pqrse388fhwyel/WHDW_2X3.vmod?dl=0

Incidentally, since you asked what the game would look like in Vassal I recently uploaded to the images a game in progress between the Tomb Kings and the Ogre Kingdoms. Should show up pretty soon.

EDIT: As a note, what times are you available next week? I'm interested it and I know my rough schedule now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Great I searched trought the vassal and I get how it works.

What country and timezone you are? Mine GMT+1, Czech Republic.
I'm going to have finals the week after it but I'll find some time - best day is either Friday or Saturday. Friday from 15.00 (Gmt+1), Saturday almost whole day.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
I'm currently in the USA, timezone -4.

Saturday next week would be much better than Friday for me. I'd aim for 14:00 your time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Giovanni Cornara
Italy
Varese
flag msg tools
https://snipertroll.wordpress.com - https://shiftingmists.wordpress.com
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,

I took the time to give a look to the army, here are my (very very personal) impressions:

Army Special Rules

Ogre Charge: Interesting and very thematic, opens up a lot of strategic options IMHO. Does it count as impact in regards to other abilities (i.e. Fortified)? I'd be inclined to say yes for game balance purposes.
Also, maybe I won't give it to small non-hero Ogre disks, as they should represent single characters, but that's just my personal opinion.

Freeze: It's not specified well in the ability description but as I understood it, when resolving melee combat, the target of an attack from a disk with Freeze will not attack at "normal" speed (even if damage is simultaneous), but its attack will be delayed until slow disks attack, right?
If so it's a nice ability, not as strong as Swift in a 1v1 situation, because swift enemy disks would have already attacked by the time it kicks in, but very useful when fighting in teams, as it will allow your other disks to deal damage on the target before it has a chance to answer, much like a single-target harpy. I like it.

Butcher: Neat ability. I'd reword it a bit and clarify whether after killing an enemy hero you are allowed to only restore a wound to one of your heroes or also to a unit.

Ogre Core: the very same ability I was thinking about when wondering how to translate the Ogres (and Bretonnians too) to Diskwars. Why not just call it "Core" or "Core Unit" so that it can be applied to a potential Bretonnian fan army?

Heroes

The heroes feel quite strong, but not that much overpowered. They are tough and can deliver some serious blows but, on the other hand they are all quite slow, which is fine to me.

Greasus Goldtooth: the wording of his ability is a bit ambiguous, does it remove an Activation Token from Greasus whenever an ally ogre disk within long range is pinned? If so, he is quite strong, but not excessively, IMHO. Maybe, given its Stamina 2, 1 less recruitment point is appropriate.

Bragg the Gutsman: Your little, personal Bloodthirster. Ouch!
Maybe I'd go for 1 less Recruitment point for him too.

Golgfag Maneater: Nothing to say here. Pretty solid brawler hero with a pretty solid ability.

Skrag the Slaughterer: This hero can go from solid to hyper-strong depending on the effectiveness of the Butcher ability IMHO.

Units

Slaughtermaster: 10 points is a lot for a small disk, especially a support one. It all depends on the cost-effectiveness of the Butcher ability in the end. Maybe lowering the Slaughtermaster's damage (thus forcing him to join someone else in order to kill a target and thus heal your disks), and making it cost 9 coiuld be an option.

Firebelly: looks quite strong to me. Compared with the Bright Wizard which costs 7 points, the firebelly has 3 more toughness (6 toughness is huge), can affect multiple targets with its focus ability and suffers no damage when using it. Sure, in order to affect multiple enemies it nust target an ally, but there is actually less risk involved as most ogre troops have 4 toughness or more (while with the Sun Dragon, for example, you take a greater risk). Add to that the fact that the firebelly is also Stalwart... lot of stuff even fora a 10-points small disk.

Gnoblar: Nothing to object. They seem OK to me.

Gorgers: The Flank/Scout corundrum is good, also seen they are not that fast. 5 strength with frenzy can be devastating, especially if you have Skrag giving them Relentless, which allows them to move through enemy lines in order to pin and potentially kill as many enemies as possibile in a kamikaze move.
I'm thinking about giving them stamina 1, raising their cost a bit and making them elite.

Ogre Bulls/Ironguts: I don't know what to think about non-elite disks with Stamina, it feels... odd. I know many of this army's abilities were designed around disks being wounded and such, but I feel they are maybe a bit too tanky for their cost (even if it's quite high).
Small note: empower tokens are twice as effective on disks with Stamina 1, as the Toughness bonus will apply to both wounds.

Leadbelchers: I don't like them much as they are. I believe they are a bit too unpredictablee and unreliable, between ranged attack, ogre charge and melee they can smash 2-3 disks in a single round if they are lucky or do nothing at all. I can understand this extremely binary attitude in a disk with a high skill cap (i.e. Doom Divers), but when a lot of randomness is involved I think it's not healthy gameplay.

Mournfang Riders: my concerns about non-elite disks with Stamina are the same of above, but they feel OK balance-wise. This is a good example of healthy skill/effectiveness ratio: if you manage to properly set up a charge they can deal a lot of damage, otherwise they will be much less effective.
A little remark: I know the original image is hard to crop, but is it possibile to rescale the art so that it can show a bit more of the Mournfangs themselves?

Sabertusks: Fine to me. Not flashy but certainly act as a a good filler and a nice backup disk to larger units due to their high speed.

Scraplauncher: Quite weak, both as a melee unit and as artillery. Sure, at 9 points it's quite cheap, but I feel it's not that much effective. If you have a disk that has to choose between entering melee and firing at range you'd have two equally strong options. Though Impact 3 is nice, the Scraplauncher's fighting potential is very low. On the other hand its ranged attack is meh. Non mobile, long range for d6-1 damage (meaning it has a 1/6 chance to deal no damage whatsoever on top of its miss chance), plus a 1/9 chance to suffer a wound... not good...
Also, same as Mournfang here... the thing is on the back of a gigantic Rhinox, which deserves to be in the picture.

Thundertusk: I like it a lot. I understand it has been changed since its original version, and I believe it's in a sweet spot right now.
Question: do multiple instances of the thundertusk slowing aura stack?

Yethees: Look nice, maybe a bit on the OP side depending on how Freeze works (see above). Flank + Strider is a good combo for setting up ambushes.

Command Cards

Aura of Flames: Quite in line with Vermintide, but not unstable. On the other hand it has a 1 in 6 chance to miss, which I believe is OK.

Bloodgorger: nice boost to a disk you were already going to trade anyway. May need some tought to pull through, if the opponent manages to somehow nullify or reduce your disk's attack you are going to lose a disk for nothing. Good risk-reward ratio. I like it.

Horde of the Maw: I'm a bit unsure about it. It looks OK on paper (hard to use effectively, but providing a high reward) but there's something off I can't actually identify...

Trample'em!: Same reasoning as the Leadbelchers. Can be extremely swingy. I like the idea but it might need a bit of rework.

Trollguts: This card is, by itself, quite good. Don't know how it combines with the bunch of multi-wound disks the ogres can feld however...

Wall of Guts: Very thematic (I imagine those ogres bouncing off enemy charging soldiers with their bellies, Obelix-style), and a solid card. My absolute favorite of the lot. +1 for the artwork.

Overall Impressions

As you might notice, I quite like the army as a whole. I believe that, with some fine tuning here and there, it can be very interesting to play with and against. Unfortunately I don't have much time to play on VASSAL, otherwise I would gladly give it a try.

As a small remark, I feel it needs a bit of rework in the actual wording of the abilities, just to align it to the language conventions used in the game. I can help you with that, if you wish.

Good work indeed! Can't wait to see the other pet project too...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Bottorff
msg tools
mb
Thanks for the games. I took some screenshots, sometime when I'm less tired and far less busy I could turn them this into a battle report if you like.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Syrio Forel wrote:
Hi,

I took the time to give a look to the army, here are my (very very personal) impressions:


Thanks for your comments! We've had three trial battles in vassal already, so I can share small impression of the ogre gameplay now.

Army Special Rules

Ogre Charge: It's very nice ability, it definetely works, although I didn't manage to use it much in those 2 battles in command of the ogres. We played it as impact and I will specify it into rules soon.
I gave it to small guys because I thought that it is going to be difficult to put up nice Ogre Charge combo with all other ogres being Medium - and it somehow proved in battle. Medium guys were quite clumsy for this and on most occasions it were small guys who helped create the effect.
About the fluff I dislike the idea of hero or character disks being single characters which can obliterate regiments of hundreds or thousands with single sweep. So I imagine that each hero is accompanied by his elite guard or stg like that

Freeze: It's truly not specified well - but yes it will work the way you wrote.

Butcher: Yes, also to a unit.

Ogre Core: fine

Heroes

Greasus Goldtooth: It means removing the activation token from the pinned unit - with stalwart Firebellies it proved quite unpleasant for poor Empire I played

Bragg the Gutsman: Probably yes. He was done quite quickly in the battle, but that was beacause of tough situation.

Skrag the Slaughterer: Butchering was not used single time in the 3 battles so I don't know yet (butchers only in 1, skrag in 2 of the games and neither didn't make it, but maybe because of being watched over)

Units

Slaughtermaster: I'm inclined to make it cheaper, but I don't want to make tragedy out of first butcher use (or unuse to put it properly)

Firebelly: He will have 5 toughnes - he proved to be beast with Greasus.

Gnoblar: They work well, although just as not very numerous support. In the sceond battle I run 5 of them and they had hard times staying within short of some huge ogre.

Gorgers: Used only once and immedietaly obliterated at range, so hard to say yet.

Ogre Bulls/Ironguts: We run them in all battles and I think that thanks to their speed and difficult manouvering they are not so strong for their cost as I expected.

Leadbelchers: I thought of them as being quite unpredictable unit (stupid ogres running into enemy lines while shooting from some beaten-up stolen canons
but youre maybe right I run them only in the first battle and they'll need more testing.

Mournfang Riders: We didn't run them so hard to say stg more but I agree.
About the image - I tried, but it was very narrow image so in case of putting Mournfang here there'd be no rider.

Scraplauncher: I'm thinking about giving it mobile, what do you think about it?
About the image - same as with mournfang.

Thundertusk: We didn't run them but I feel the same. About stacking - I didn't think about it but when considering possible armies with 2 Thundertusks and its stacking posibilites at short range - lets stack it.

Command Cards

Aura of Flames: Velensk used it in the third battle while running 2 Firebellies with Greasus, and it worked nicely.

[b]Bloodgorger:
I used it once and killed one skeleton archer for 4 points but I love it as well!

Horde of the Maw: I effectively used it once on 5 ogres or so but my army was already completely pinned.

Trample'em!: I run it and I like it - it feels quite ogre-like. I come up with another possibility - roll d6: 1-2 = +0, 3-4 = +1, 5-6 = +2, but I somehow like the current one better.

Trollguts: It worked well, not overly strong

Wall of Guts:

Overall Impressions

Thanks
About the wording - I will look at the things you wrote about and change them, I only wonder about how to word Freeze that it works the way it should in meele, what would you suggest?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pavel Benc
msg tools
Velensk wrote:
Thanks for the games. I took some screenshots, sometime when I'm less tired and far less busy I could turn them this into a battle report if you like.


Thanks as well. It was great and I know the rules better now It's different while playing in vassal, I think the challange is that person somehow perceive the battlefield in different way than normal while in vassal. And the second important challange is the control of the game, I had hard times in the first battle, but in the third I already got used to it.

As I wrote above, we played 3 two regiment battles. I forgot to take screens, so if you'd like to make a report it'd be great (despite the games being relatively straightforward)
In the first I run Ogres against Velensks Empire-Woodelf combo.
I run Golgfag and Greasus, each having 3 Bulls and 1 Leadbelcher, cards: Bloodgorger, Wall of Guts, Trample’em, Horde of the Maw - I wanted to try whether bulls aren't too strong
Velensk run magic snipers (drycha, blazing mages, + magic cards) with fast guys like knight panter and wardencers.
And, well I got smashed - First I got some guys sniped and then I allowed massive charge without managing any solid countercharge and so I had my whole army pinned.

First lesson Ogres are truly slow and clumsy (Velensk commented on feeling them like dwarfs without artillery in extreme and there is stg about it) - you have to be prepared for a charge all the time while aproaching enemy. Trample'em can help spliting enemy lines, but only if you roll well.

Secondly I run Ogres against Tomb Kings.
I had Brag, Skrag, 5 gnoblars, Ironguts, 2 bulls and butcher, cards: Trollguts, Trampl’em, Wall of Guts, Bloodgorger
Velensk run some crazy poison combo- Khalida, Khatep, two chariots, bunch of archers, necrotect, 2x tomb guard.
In this game I started well, I got cave and made hide here. Then came very good rolls on trample'em and I took the chance and rushed headlong into enemy lines, Bragg pinning Khatep and Ironguts pinning Khalida. There were two problems: my freshly reinforced gnoblars were left behind and Brag didn't kill khatep, beacuse nasty necrotect increased his toughness by two, Khalida was decreasing attack value and he was empowered as well- unpleasant surprise. My bulls then got into brawl with two Tomb Guards which were positioned on some empowering terrain- well as TGuards ability suggests, they ended up beaten. and that was the end - TGuards finished off Skrag, and the battlefield was cleaned of Gnoblars soon. Tomb kings had 5 command cards as well, that was unpleasant.
Moral of the story: Maybe don't take 5 Gnoblars, don't leave them behind and beware nasty combos?

In the third on I took Empire, while facing Ogres under Velensks command.
I run Franz and Volkmar, 2xMarienburg, 2xTalabeclad, 2xTalabheim, Knights, pistoliers and Tank. Cards: Myrmida, Eager,some empower, grim resolve.
I faced: Skrag, Greasus, 2x Firebellies, 2-3x Bulls, Scraplauncher, Gnoblars, Sabretusk. cards: Aura of flame, empower, wall of guts, eager troops.
So we aproached, we met on some svift counterattack inducing terrain - this was bad as I had hard times getting rid of ogres sitting here, feasting on my desperate troopers. However the battle was relatively even, to the point when unactivated stallwart firebelly (hidden under 2 units of mine) managed to blast of my guys blocking his Bull and hero and I was done.

Result: Firebellies can be truly brutal (especially with Greasus, which removes activation from them whenever they are pinned) - I will decrease their toughness to 5 and I'm considering whether stallwart is the right choise for them. Greasus is really hard to deal with as well, he is not extreme with 5/5 but with T5andW2 he is truly rolling avalanche. Suggestions welcomed!

That's all for a while, my finals are starting on tommorow!

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.