Paul Dempster
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I wonder. Got Breaker Bay yesterday and am going through it trying to work out wonderful new card interactions.

Both ANCUR and NetrunnerDB tell me its not released yet, but I have it in my hands cool

London Library - Trash all programs hosted on London Library when your turn ends.

Sacrificial Construct - Trash - Prevent an installed program from being trashed.

I would think that it does but I've been known to be wrong in the past.

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Andrew Brown
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i would say that it works as well.

it's not a constant state of trashing after your turn is over, it happens once.


but that said, why not just spend the click to return it to your hand? it seems like Sacrificial Construct is a crutch that's going to slow you down, and it only saves it for one turn. you'll have to return or trash it the next turn anyway.


better yet, just Scavenge it out of the library for free.
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Andrew Keddie
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End of turn (like start of turn) is an event. It happens once, you resolve all triggers, and move on. So yes, this works. But unless you're including Construct for other reasons, just click to pick up as dr00 suggests.
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Paul Dempster
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Well it's quite limiting if you install and uninstall the same turn you only get 2 clicks to run with, so I was trying to find a way around that. But London Library Scavenge is a great idea, 3 credits cheaper than Test Run Scavenge, nice one.

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Tommy Roman
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
End of turn (like start of turn) is an event. It happens once, you resolve all triggers, and move on. So yes, this works. But unless you're including Construct for other reasons, just click to pick up as dr00 suggests.


I disagree. You can only delay the trashing of the hosted program with SC- you'll be forced to trash it at the completion of your next turn.

Like you said, the end of your turn is an event, but one that will happen every turn, not just once. This is 2.3 of the runner's discard phase.
 
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Nova Cat
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He clearly meant once per turn. Unless you think he was insinuating that one one turn ends per game.
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Rafał Cywicki
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Or just Scavenge it.
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Zak Jarvis
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
[...]unless you're including Construct for other reasons, just click to pick up[...]


If you want to use a program two turns in a row on 'London Library', it's a better version of 'All-nighter' for that specific scenario. You pay a click to install on some previous turn, and get back two saved clicks later on (one click to pick up in turn one, one click to rehost in turn two), compared to 'All-nighter' getting you one click back later on for the one click preloaded.
 
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Tommy Roman
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Novacat wrote:
He clearly meant once per turn. Unless you think he was insinuating that one one turn ends per game.


IMHO, the other posters have muddied the explanation, and I didn't think it was clear at all.

I am sorry if this was obvious to you, but Andrew Brown strongly implied something else when he stated:

"it's not a constant state of trashing after your turn is over, it happens once."

As long as London Library is installed, it has established a new constant ability: it does not a have a trigger or paid cost associated with it and occurs at step 2.3 of the turn structure on every turn. I was trying to convey to the OP that playing SC would be a temporary method of preserving the hosted program- it would have to be trashed at the end of his next turn.

I didn't want the OP to interpret "it happens once" as a permanent install on London Library just because he saved it the first time with SC.

Again, I apologize for the semantics.
 
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Jacob Morris
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tommygunn2011 wrote:
As long as London Library is installed, it has established a new constant ability: it does not a have a trigger or paid cost associated with it and occurs at step 2.3 of the turn structure on every turn.


London Library wrote:
Trash all programs hosted on London Library when your turn ends.


That is definitely a conditional ability. Note the use of "when". But you're right that it happens every turn, that's an important clarification to this thread.



I think dr00's point was that this isn't something like Plascrete Carapace, which is trashed when it has 0 counters left on it even if you prevent it from being trashed at first.
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Tommy Roman
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Really?

I thought an active card like LL would create a new constant ability:

Constant abilities are abilities that are "always on". They can have conditions that need to be met in order to cause certain effects, but constant abilities are not triggered and do not have costs. (from ANCUR)

I agree that conditional abilities typically use the "when" or "whenever" phrasing, but I believe LL is one of those exceptions.
 
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Jacob Morris
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Check out this ruling for more information about abilities.

All abilities that use "when" or "whenever" are conditional abilities, but not all conditional abilities say "when" or "whenever".
 
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Tommy Roman
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That link provided some insight, but still no clear answers in my mind. By Lukas' own admission, conditional and constant abilities are more "fuzzy".

Perhaps this is one of those "conditional constant abilities" that you refer to: the condition being a hosted program on LL at step 2.3.

Anyway, it would be helpful if those kind of distinctions would be included in the updated rulebook.
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Andrew Brown
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jakodrako wrote:
I think dr00's point was that this isn't something like Plascrete Carapace, which is trashed when it has 0 counters left on it even if you prevent it from being trashed at first.
that's exactly right
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Brian
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I think scavenge is a better play if you want to have the program in permanently. HOWEVER: I have been building a deck around trip Femmes with London Library, and the ability to drop it for free, target an ice for 1 turn, Construct to keep it in play, and then return it to my hand the NEXT turn so I can retarget is a cool way to use Sac Construct with Library.

It's janky, but I like jank.
 
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Ben Finkel
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Advantage for SacCon is it means you can run last click with something on your Library, which is something I find I sometimes have to do. And it also has the advantage that you can spend that click on a relaxed turn, where you might not have the time to scavenge on a tense turn. Good catch for a somewhat unintuitive card interaction!
 
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