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Fief: France 1429» Forums » Rules

Subject: Noble Attributes (The Cruel)/Secret Passage rss

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Chris Globus
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Player A has Phillipe The Cruel who kills all captured Lords.

Player B has a Secret Passage and surrenders, wanting to escape when captured.

How does this resolve?
 
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I AM Not A Number
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The Cruel kills all the surrender Lords before they can escape.
So playing a secret passage in this case is useless.
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Chris Globus
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Main English Rules:

10.2 Secret Passage

10.2.3 During any phase

• Escape - Allows a Captive(s) to escape without paying a
Ransom (6.2.4).


Politics expansion rules (English)

The CRUEL - This Lord takes NO prisoners. All captured Lords are killed.



So, the argument was made that Secret Passage can be played once the Lord is captured, as they must be captured to be killed by the Cruel.
 
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Michael Mesich
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I would be inclined to argue that the Lord is never captured as he is instead immediately dispatched by the Cruel Lord.

There is no holding cell to tunnel into and mount an escape from.
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Sdric
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Allowing to escape form a CRUEL lord open the door to a possible escape from an uprising.
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James

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After reading the rules again, I believe that "Secret Passage" trumps "The Cruel". The reason is not the order of play but rather the intended strength of "Secret Passage". Because you can use it to ignore both "Ambush" and "Assassination" I believe it would also defeat "the Cruel", especially because "The Cruel" is basically another "Assassination" card.
 
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Sdric
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You cannot avoid an Ambush with a Secret Passage !
 
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Chris Globus
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Incorrect:

10.2.3 During any phase
• Avoid Assassination or Ambush - A Lord can ignore an
Assassination or Ambush attempt if he plays a Secret Passage
card after an Assassination (10.3) or Ambush (10.5) card has
been played. Both the Secret Passage and the Assassination or
Ambush cards are then discarded.
 
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Sdric
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Lumpdog420 wrote:
Incorrect:

10.2.3 During any phase
• Avoid Assassination or Ambush - A Lord can ignore an
Assassination or Ambush attempt if he plays a Secret Passage
card after an Assassination (10.3) or Ambush (10.5) card has
been played. Both the Secret Passage and the Assassination or
Ambush cards are then discarded.


Another English/French rules difference...
Are this point also present in the printed English rule ?
 
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Chris Globus
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Yes, that's straight from the English main rules.

The Cruel/Secret Passage question is not specifically covered.
 
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Sdric
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The general rules is first declared, first resolved

ex: A Pope is elected, the Pope wants to excommunicate, another player wants to assassinate the Pope.
If the excommunication is declared first, the excommunication is done first.
If the assassination is declared first, the assassination attempts is done first.

The cruel attribute (or the kill of the Noble in an uprising) is an automatic effect, this effect is necessarily (and automatically) declare before the Secret Passage. Therefore, the prisoners is killed before the Secret Passage can be played.
An other way to see it, kill the captive is part of the last battle round resolution. An effect must be completely resolved before playing another one.

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Chris Globus
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Yes, but...

Player A declares an Assassination, Player B can respond with a Secret Passage.

This appears to be the one card that violates the general rule.
 
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Sdric
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- Respond with a Secret Passage to an assassination attempt
are part of the resolution of an assassination attempt

Similarly :
- Boost an uprising with another uprising or a Secret passage
- Try to stop an uprising
are part of the resolution of an uprising

Meaning you can not assassinate a Bishop trying to stop an uprising.


If respond to the cruel trait with a Secret Passage were part of the resolution, This will be in the rules.


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uwe eickert
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Ahhhh, Gunter and I developed the Attribute Cards with this in mind. A player can use a Secret Passage card to get away from the 'Cruel' Lord. BUT, he must have the Secret Passage card. It cannot be traded for or played by another player.

This adds to the planning and decision making process for all players. If going into a Battle against the Cruel, do you trade for a Secret Passage card ahead of time? Also, the Cruel cannot decide not to kill you. It is just in his nature!

I am glad to see that this expansion is being played. It is one of our favorites.
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Chris Globus
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It's one of our favorites. I appreciate how smoothly the expansions integrate into the base game. I also appreciate you answering this question directly. As solid an answer as can be had.

One issue we have is that the Relics I have have the same print on both sides, so I couldn't put them face down.

I was able to get a Kick starter copy after the fact, so I got all the great plastic buildings. If you offer the coins again, I'd be interested. Likewise any future expansion.
 
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James

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Yes, love this game. It is by far my favorite and the expansions as well. The balance is great and the fact that you can always be a factor and thus are never "out of the game" is great for my group of gamers.
 
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uwe eickert
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Chris,
We still have some coins in stock. You can find them on our webpage:
http://academygames.com/shop/buy-from-academy-games

Uwe
 
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uwe eickert
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Our French partners changed the Relics, so that they would never be hidden. They felt that this created more decision making and strategizing. Our newest pdf rules set has all of this clarified. Sorry about that.
 
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Sdric
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uweeickert wrote:
Ahhhh, Gunter and I developed the Attribute Cards with this in mind. A player can use a Secret Passage card to get away from the 'Cruel' Lord. BUT, he must have the Secret Passage card. It cannot be traded for or played by another player.

This adds to the planning and decision making process for all players. If going into a Battle against the Cruel, do you trade for a Secret Passage card ahead of time? Also, the Cruel cannot decide not to kill you. It is just in his nature!

I am glad to see that this expansion is being played. It is one of our favorites.


Does that mean we can also avoid to be killed by an uprising using a secret passage ?
You can free only your Noble ? I always think that you can free any Noble using a Secret Passage.
Escape
- Allows a Captive(s) to escape without paying a Ransom (6.2.4)

Reading the english rules you can even free all the captive with one card.
 
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uwe eickert
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Currently - no.
The Secret Passage only allows you to ignore Assassination or Ambush attacks. Or if captured, to escape. These are all associated with other noble actions.

The peasants are a bit more scattered and have more retribution in mind.

We could explore adding Uprising, since currently this is a exception rule. And you know that we do not like exception rules.

Will discuss with the others.

The most updated rules version v112 can be downloaded from our website.
Uwe
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jon wadsworth
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Can only see version 1.08 for the english rules available on the website, is there somewhere else we can get the v1.12?

cheers!
 
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Sdric
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https://boardgamegeek.com/file/download/qf5qq6v66i/Fief_Engl...
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uwe eickert
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Thanks Sdric. I will check the rules that we have on the website. I thought it had the latest version. Maybe the link verbiage has not been updated by mistake. - Uwe
 
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Raph Moimoi
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uweeickert wrote:
Currently - no.
The Secret Passage only allows you to ignore Assassination or Ambush attacks. Or if captured, to escape. These are all associated with other noble actions.

The peasants are a bit more scattered and have more retribution in mind.

We could explore adding Uprising, since currently this is a exception rule. And you know that we do not like exception rules.

Will discuss with the others.

The most updated rules version v112 can be downloaded from our website.
Uwe


Still v1.08 on your website.
 
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