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Subject: [Deck Advice] Law Dogs Shootout rss

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Matthew Martin
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I'm coming from designing for Netrunner, but this is a different animal. Trying to balance good cards and good draw is tricky.

Here's what I've been looking at

♠ Spades (12)
1x A Lucinda "Lucy" Clover
2x A Jake Smiley
1x A Clementine Lepp
2x 2 Olivia Jenks
1x 2 Judge Harry Somerset
1x 2 Philip Swinford
1x 3 Ramiro Mendoza
1x 3 Tommy Harden
1x 4 Prescott Utter
1x 9 Xiong "Wendy" Cheng

♣ Clubs (14)
2x A Establishin' Who's in Charge
2x A Make 'em Sweat
4x 2 Make the Smart Choice
1x 3 The Stakes Just Rose
1x 3 Sun in Yer Eyes
1x 6 Hot Lead Flyin'
1x 6 One Good Turn…
2x 6 Faster on the Draw

♦ Diamonds (10)
1x A Bank of California
1x A Pony Express
2x A The Mayor's Office
2x 2 Pettigrew’s Pawnshop
2x 2 The Town Hall
2x 6 Killer Bunnies Casino

♥ Hearts (16)
4x A Pair of Six-Shooters
2x 2 Peacemaker
2x 2 Bluetick
2x 3 Shotgun
2x 6 Roan
2x 6 Holy Wheel Gun
2x Q Legendary Holster

It uses a basic full house structure, Aces and 2s, with 6s and 3s as backup. I can see it getting torn up by a Shotgun with those values though.

The basic style is to make police officers with guns to murder people.

Should I use jokers? And I'm not totally sure who I'd start. I keep finding myself wanting to start too much upkeep.
 
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Andrew Albertsen
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My go to start posse for Law Dogs is Philip Swinford, Tommy Harden, and Prescott Utter. Philip's ability to draw cards against cheating hands is great for lowball, and Tommy's ability is just awesome. Prescott with the other two Law Dogs ensures a nice starting influence. If you want to add Jake Smiley for additional influence, or Travis for a grift, I leave that up to you... but I kinda feel like Philip's card draw can make up for a bad start hand over time.
 
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John Smith
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It helps to know how many coreboxes and packs saddlebags you own. It took me awhile to find a good Shooter LD, but this last weekend I did really well with this deck. I had some problems with Oddities last night that I'm gonna try to see if i can work around it. With your deck I would take out 1 jake for 1 Allie so you can "put pressure" on. Your deck also has alot of SHOTGUNable guys like I did and got wrecked so maybe add a few more "higher value" dudes. In general most of the time I found LD is gonna draw 6 cards and redraw 2 so I made mine 15x3 and I was getting pretty good hands.

http://dtdb.co/en/decklist/834/hardenpayne
 
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B C Z
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If you aren't aware of dtdb.co you should probably mosey on over there for deck building. Besides a robust toolset for actually building the decks, you can publish them and solicit feedback. In that environment it's easier to give feedback because you can look at spoilers for the cards and run some sample draws to get a feel for how the deck will play in the first turn or two.

I see F&F cards in there, so I'm assuming you have all cards currently in the pool.

That said, some observations (which again would be easier on dtdb.co)...

1/ Clementine Lepp only has one Saloon to run into.
2/ Who gets the Legendary Holsters? Usually that goes on a big stud, but your only big stud is a mercenary who is constantly demanding to be paid.
3/ with a Legendary Holster, all those 6s (unless you can constantly get to 7 bullets) are going to make it fail a lot.

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Daniel D
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Who's going to invent your Holy Wheel Gun?
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Matthew Martin
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A few points

- I did build this on DTDB. http://dtdb.co/en/decklist/872/law-dogs-shootout
- I axed the wheelgun.
- I have a full set of cards
- I refined it a bit to tighten up the draw structure.

Spades (* starting posse) (13)
2x A Jake Smiley
1x A Lucinda "Lucy" Clover
1x A Clementine Lepp
2x 2 Olivia Jenks
1x 2 Judge Harry Somerset
1x 2 Philip Swinford
1x 3 Ramiro Mendoza
2x 3 Philip Swinford
1x 3 Tommy Harden
1x 9 Xiong "Wendy" Cheng

♣ Clubs (14)
2x A Establishin' Who's in Charge
2x A Make 'em Sweat
4x 2 Make the Smart Choice
2x 3 The Stakes Just Rose
2x 3 Sun in Yer Eyes
2x 6 Faster on the Draw

♦ Diamonds (11)
1x A Bank of California
2x A The Mayor's Office
1x A Pony Express
1x 2 Pettigrew’s Pawnshop
1x 2 The Town Hall
1x 3 1st Baptist Church
2x 3 Yan Li's Tailoring
1x 3 Hustings
1x 6 Killer Bunnies Casino

♥ Hearts (14)
4x A Pair of Six-Shooters
4x 2 Peacemaker
4x 3 Shotgun
2x Q Legendary Holster

Jokers (2)


byronczimmer wrote:

That said, some observations (which again would be easier on dtdb.co)...

1/ Clementine Lepp only has one Saloon to run into.
2/ Who gets the Legendary Holsters? Usually that goes on a big stud, but your only big stud is a mercenary who is constantly demanding to be paid.
3/ with a Legendary Holster, all those 6s (unless you can constantly get to 7 bullets) are going to make it fail a lot.


These are decent points, though.

1) I'm not sure. Working on this. Any saloons I'd add are high value and counter to the draw strategy, but pulling her out takes away from my full house draw. I didn't think I'd start her though.
2) Why does this being on a stud matter vs a draw? It only seems to look at numerical value.
3) My thought was having the bulk of the deck be Aces and 2s would cause this to fire pretty reliably. I'd be playing the 6s and Qs as much as possible to push that in my favor.
 
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B C Z
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Deviant wrote:

byronczimmer wrote:

That said, some observations (which again would be easier on dtdb.co)...

1/ Clementine Lepp only has one Saloon to run into.
2/ Who gets the Legendary Holsters? Usually that goes on a big stud, but your only big stud is a mercenary who is constantly demanding to be paid.
3/ with a Legendary Holster, all those 6s (unless you can constantly get to 7 bullets) are going to make it fail a lot.


These are decent points, though.

1) I'm not sure. Working on this. Any saloons I'd add are high value and counter to the draw strategy, but pulling her out takes away from my full house draw. I didn't think I'd start her though.
2) Why does this being on a stud matter vs a draw? It only seems to look at numerical value.
3) My thought was having the bulk of the deck be Aces and 2s would cause this to fire pretty reliably. I'd be playing the 6s and Qs as much as possible to push that in my favor.


I popped over to dtdb.co to take a peek.

re: #2/3. The Holster doesn't have to go onto a Stud, but right now you have one person at 3 bullets (Mendoza), two 2s (Olivia Jenks (the school marm) and Wendy) and everyone else is 1 or 0. Given the low value draw structure of the deck, it probably works often enough. Also note that the Legendary Holster is unique - once one is played, the other is dead weight, and without a Gomorra Parish (2D) to let you get rid of it, is going to mess up your pulls and draws.

One thing to be aware of - you will probably not be winning the lowball round at the beginning of each day very often, unless it's against a deck that just can't hit the broad side of a barn when shooting.

On test pulls, I got, with alarming frequency...
4 of a kind
3 of a kind
2 pair

Only once did I get a hand with only a high card -- even the jokers didn't give me enough to force a loss on lowball.



 
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Matthew Martin
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byronczimmer wrote:

I popped over to dtdb.co to take a peek.

re: #2/3. The Holster doesn't have to go onto a Stud, but right now you have one person at 3 bullets (Mendoza), two 2s (Olivia Jenks (the school marm) and Wendy) and everyone else is 1 or 0. Given the low value draw structure of the deck, it probably works often enough. Also note that the Legendary Holster is unique - once one is played, the other is dead weight, and without a Gomorra Parish (2D) to let you get rid of it, is going to mess up your pulls and draws.

One thing to be aware of - you will probably not be winning the lowball round at the beginning of each day very often, unless it's against a deck that just can't hit the broad side of a barn when shooting.

On test pulls, I got, with alarming frequency...
4 of a kind
3 of a kind
2 pair

Only once did I get a hand with only a high card -- even the jokers didn't give me enough to force a loss on lowball.


Alright, neat, but:

- If i only have one holster, it's not going to come up in my hand with anything even resembling reliability? I could axe it altogether for something else, but it seemed good. Or I could swap in Gomorra Parish, it's not like I'm not playing 2s.
- I knew I was going to lose lowball pretty much constantly when I built a shootout deck, I think.
 
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John Smith
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what about adding in 1 Allie hensmen instead of 1 jakesmikey or clem? Allie is nice vs some decks to put the pressure on em
 
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Matthew Martin
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Jigoku81 wrote:
what about adding in 1 Allie hensmen instead of 1 jakesmikey or clem? Allie is nice vs some decks to put the pressure on em


That's a lot of upkeep though? And it takes away from my primary draw pool?

Edit: Looked at the wrong Allie. Maybe.

I will say I didn't really look at dudes outside neutrals and law dogs, for fear of the upkeep.
 
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