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Subject: Tavern Tricks rss

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Levi Mote
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Heya all!
I just posted rules and printable PNG files on my FB page for a trick taking fantasy tavern game I'm working on.
I'd love your feedback.
Best,
Levi

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bonsai-Games/133280816711975
 
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Kai Bettzieche
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Not everyone here is on FB .. you want feedback? Step away from social media at first



Kind regards,
Kai
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Levi Mote
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Tavern Tricks Rules

Tavern Tricks
When the adventurers have delved all of the dungeons and slain all of the monsters they retire to the local tavern for good drink and company. One of the most popular tavern games in all of the realms is Tavern Tricks. Now you can roll the bones and play your cards just like the greatest adventurers of the realms.

Ages: 8+
Players: 3 - 6
Time: 15 – 60 minutes

Components
• Dominance Dice
o Race & Weapon
• 54 Card Deck
o 36 Battle Cards
o 18 Specialty Cards
• 120 Coins
• 1 Left / Right Coin

Setup & Game play
• Randomly determine the First Dealer.
• Give each player 20 coins. Place all unassigned coins back in the box.
• Dealer shuffles the deck and deals 8 cards to each player placing all remaining cards out of play until the next hand.
• Dealer flips the Left / Right Coin.
• Players choose 3 cards from their hand to pass the direction indicated on the Left / Right Coin.
• The leader rolls the Dominance Dice. The resulting Race and Weapon have dominance for this hand.
• Each player bids from 1 to 3 coins on this hand by placing those coins into a central pile called the stakes.
• The player to the Dealer’s Left leads the first trick of the hand and play proceeds to the left until all players have played a card into the trick.
• The player who wins each trick takes the cards played for that trick and sets them aside, then leads the next trick.
• After 7 tricks are complete, the player who took the most tricks wins the stakes.
• Pass the deal to the left.
• The new Dealer takes all the cards and starts a new hand.

Which card wins a trick?
Tricks are won in the following order of primacy…
1. The Race and Weapon of your play matches the dominance dice
2. The Race of your play matches the dominance dice
3. The Weapon of your play matches the dominance dice
4. You played the highest number

What if we tie?
If a trick ends in a tie the cards remain in the middle and another trick begins. This trick is led by the player who led the tied trick. This may happen multiple times until someone wins a trick and takes all tied tricks as well.
If after the seventh trick has been played, there is a tie for most number of tricks taken, the eighth card (normally discarded) is played as a tie breaker. If this eighth trick ends in a tie, shuffle the deck and deal all players one card until someone wins a trick and breaks the tie.

How to Win
After a prescribed number of deals, the player with the most coins wins!
3 players Each Player Deals Twice
4 to 6 players Each Player Deals Once

Example Trick
In this four player game, Alex has dealt 8 cards to all players and they have passed 3 to the right. The Dominance Dice have come up Undead & Axe.
Bobby plays the 35 Orc Axe battle card.
Axe is dominant and the 35 is the highest ranked card in the game so Bobby knows this battle card will beat all other Axes, but knows any Undead will beat it.
Charlie plays the 13 Undead Mace battle card.
Undead is dominant and even though 13 is a middle number Charlie feels confidant the Undead play will hold out to win the trick.
Danni plays the 5 Goblin Sword.
With lower ranked Axes and no Undead cards in hand, Danni dumps a card and waits to pick up some tricks with those Axes later.
Alex plays the 0 Doppleganger special card.
Alex Copies Charlie’s Undead Race and Bobby’s Axe Weapon making his Doppleganger a 0 Undead Axe.
Matching both dominance dice, Alex wins the trick and leads the next trick.

Specialty Card Details
All of these cards are played instead of a battle card and in many cases cannot win the trick.

Bow (x3)
You may choose a player who has not played yet or one who has already played.

Chaos Crown (x2)
The battle card Chaos Races are Orc, Goblin, & Undead

Chaos Dragon (x1)
The battle card Chaos Races are Orc, Goblin, & Undead

Doppleganger (x2)
You may copy both Race and Weapon from the same card.

Fates (x2)
This reroll happens immediately when playing this card.

Order Crown (x2)
The battle card Order Races are Humans, Dwarves, and Elves.

Order Dragon (x1)
The battle card Order Races are Humans, Dwarves, and Elves.

Shield (x3)
All cards in the trick with the chosen symbol are treated as if they have no weapon symbol.

Thief (x2)
The lead player is defined as the player with the most coins in their personal bank. If there is a tie, the player of this card may choose which personal bank to steal from. If the person playing this card has the most coins in their personal bank, this card has no effect.
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Isaac Shalev
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I like the idea of three dimensions for ordering the cards instead of just suit and rank. What I'm less sold on is the way the special abilities interact. For me, a trick-taking game asks me to plot out how to play a given hand based on being able to assess how strong or weak it is. In this game, there's so much wildness going on that I'm just not sure how you can plan a hand out. That makes the game much lighter, I think, which isn't a bad thing, just less in line with what I'm looking for in a trick-taker.

Btw, I didn't play, I just read the rules!
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Levi Mote
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ender7 wrote:
I like the idea of three dimensions for ordering the cards instead of just suit and rank. What I'm less sold on is the way the special abilities interact. For me, a trick-taking game asks me to plot out how to play a given hand based on being able to assess how strong or weak it is. In this game, there's so much wildness going on that I'm just not sure how you can plan a hand out. That makes the game much lighter, I think, which isn't a bad thing, just less in line with what I'm looking for in a trick-taker.

Btw, I didn't play, I just read the rules!


Great feedback Isaac! It is definitely meant to be a very light beer & pretzels trick taking game with a lot of "take that" spoileriness!

The betting restrictions prevent the swinginess of an individual trick from causing the game to go off the rails entirely, keeping scores close.

I can send you the printable card files or you can get them from the Bonsai FB page linked above.
 
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Isaac Shalev
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Are you planning on kickstarting, or are you looking for a publishing partner? It feels like a game that Smirk & Dagger might like. Because it leans on traditional trick-taking, it's easy to teach, and the take-that is right up Curt Covert's alley.
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Levi Mote
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ender7 wrote:
Are you planning on kickstarting, or are you looking for a publishing partner? It feels like a game that Smirk & Dagger might like. Because it leans on traditional trick-taking, it's easy to teach, and the take-that is right up Curt Covert's alley.


Isaac,
I've never had contact with Curt, but I agree it is in his wheelhouse and would love to show him the game.
I need to do a bit more blind testing before I would want to shop it around.
I'm also not averse to Kickstarting, but I'd much rather find a publisher than deal with all of that.
 
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TTDG
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Instead of a right left coin, I prefer a Hearts style known progression of left, right, across, hold. It balances better.

I'm not too keen on your tie breaker, or maybe just the unused 8th card.

Your description has holes: I see specialty cards sort of described, but not how they are dealt. I don't know what suits you have on the cards, or how many of each suit, etc. I don't know what is on the dominance dice, how many sides the dominance dice have, or even if there are only 2 of them. I don't know what distinguishes a battle card from a normal card.

Now, if this was just a randomly determine which is trump for this round, and then play trick taking with fantasy cards, I'd be intrigued. But I think you have another layer or 2 on there that I don't know about yet.
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Levi Mote
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Thanks for the great feedback! I will try to address your concerns / comments.

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Instead of a right left coin, I prefer a Hearts style known progression of left, right, across, hold. It balances better.


LRAH is that is limits the game to an even number of players 4 or greater. I could alternate between L, R & H though without affecting player count.
Is the problem you have with the current mechanism a lack of planning? If so, this was intentional. Trying something different with Trick Taking.

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
I'm not too keen on your tie breaker, or maybe just the unused 8th card.


What problem does this create for you?

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Your description has holes: I see specialty cards sort of described, but not how they are dealt. I don't know what suits you have on the cards, or how many of each suit, etc. I don't know what is on the dominance dice, how many sides the dominance dice have, or even if there are only 2 of them. I don't know what distinguishes a battle card from a normal card.


All 54 cards are shuffled together and 8 are dealt to the players. 36 cards are Battle Cards each with 2 suits (Race & Weapon) and a numeric value from 0 - 35. The other 18 cards are the specialty cards listed in the rules.

The Dominance Dice are six sided dice one for Races, the other for Weapons. These are rolled at the beginning of the hand to determine which Race / Weapon is Dominant (trump).

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Now, if this was just a randomly determine which is trump for this round, and then play trick taking with fantasy cards, I'd be intrigued. But I think you have another layer or 2 on there that I don't know about yet.


This game may be more like you described than it seems.

Hope that helps.
Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Levi Mote
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Also, the rules don't list the specialty card effects as such, they list clarifications on application.

The cards themselves list the effects. You can view printable cards using the link in the OP without having a FB account.
 
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TTDG
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levimote wrote:
ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Instead of a right left coin, I prefer a Hearts style known progression of left, right, across, hold. It balances better.


LRAH is that is limits the game to an even number of players 4 or greater. I could alternate between L, R & H though without affecting player count.
Is the problem you have with the current mechanism a lack of planning? If so, this was intentional. Trying something different with Trick Taking.

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
I'm not too keen on your tie breaker, or maybe just the unused 8th card.


What problem does this create for you?

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Your description has holes: I see specialty cards sort of described, but not how they are dealt. I don't know what suits you have on the cards, or how many of each suit, etc. I don't know what is on the dominance dice, how many sides the dominance dice have, or even if there are only 2 of them. I don't know what distinguishes a battle card from a normal card.


All 54 cards are shuffled together and 8 are dealt to the players. 36 cards are Battle Cards each with 2 suits (Race & Weapon) and a numeric value from 0 - 35. The other 18 cards are the specialty cards listed in the rules.


In order:
Balance, like I said.

It feels more inelegant than it needs to be. The rules to benefit ratio is too high.

The fact that you have 3 decks, one which matched the dominance dice (DD), and 1 which is dealt and played, and a 3rd that does something special, and you STILL have not clarified how all 3 decks of cards get into players hands, interact, stated when they are played, etc, only leaves me more confused than before. Just the fact that the battle deck matched the DD, yet it is the large deck you are playing, yet the battle deck is what is matched to the DD, is a completely inexcusable omission. I have no idea what is even ON your biggest deck; I thought it was suits matching the DD. I know YOU know the rules, but you are failing to communicate them.
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Nathan Woll
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The rules are very clear and obvious - read post 3 again. Have you ever seen a deck of playing cards? 54 cards (same as this game
consisting of 36 numbered cards (called Battle cards in this game)
and 18 other cards (4 of A,K,Q,J and 2 jokers - these are unsuited and called Specialty cards in this deck)
As to how they are distributed, the third rule says shuffle the deck and deal 8 cards to each player.

I like trick-taking card games but this is too much chaos for my liking.
ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
levimote wrote:
ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Instead of a right left coin, I prefer a Hearts style known progression of left, right, across, hold. It balances better.


LRAH is that is limits the game to an even number of players 4 or greater. I could alternate between L, R & H though without affecting player count.
Is the problem you have with the current mechanism a lack of planning? If so, this was intentional. Trying something different with Trick Taking.

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
I'm not too keen on your tie breaker, or maybe just the unused 8th card.


What problem does this create for you?

ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
Your description has holes: I see specialty cards sort of described, but not how they are dealt. I don't know what suits you have on the cards, or how many of each suit, etc. I don't know what is on the dominance dice, how many sides the dominance dice have, or even if there are only 2 of them. I don't know what distinguishes a battle card from a normal card.


All 54 cards are shuffled together and 8 are dealt to the players. 36 cards are Battle Cards each with 2 suits (Race & Weapon) and a numeric value from 0 - 35. The other 18 cards are the specialty cards listed in the rules.


In order:
Balance, like I said.

It feels more inelegant than it needs to be. The rules to benefit ratio is too high.

The fact that you have 3 decks, one which matched the dominance dice (DD), and 1 which is dealt and played, and a 3rd that does something special, and you STILL have not clarified how all 3 decks of cards get into players hands, interact, stated when they are played, etc, only leaves me more confused than before. Just the fact that the battle deck matched the DD, yet it is the large deck you are playing, yet the battle deck is what is matched to the DD, is a completely inexcusable omission. I have no idea what is even ON your biggest deck; I thought it was suits matching the DD. I know YOU know the rules, but you are failing to communicate them.
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Levi Mote
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ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:

The fact that you have 3 decks, one which matched the dominance dice (DD), and 1 which is dealt and played, and a 3rd that does something special, and you STILL have not clarified how all 3 decks of cards get into players hands, interact, stated when they are played, etc, only leaves me more confused than before. Just the fact that the battle deck matched the DD, yet it is the large deck you are playing, yet the battle deck is what is matched to the DD, is a completely inexcusable omission. I have no idea what is even ON your biggest deck; I thought it was suits matching the DD. I know YOU know the rules, but you are failing to communicate them.


There is only a single 54 card deck being used. I'm not sure how to more clearly state this in the rules.
Any help is appreciated.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Levi Mote
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nswoll wrote:

I like trick-taking card games but this is too much chaos for my liking.


Maybe presenting the game as a trick taking game is the problem. Trick Taking is just one mechanism of the game. Its very non-traditional in that you don't have to follow the suit led, there are effectively 2 suits on each battle card, and there are 18 cards that have no suit.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Levi Mote
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I've adjusted the Shield card due to play testing feedback so that it is now more useful.

"Shield
Choose a player. Ignore all cards that target that player this trick."

Cards that Target a player are: Bow, Chaos Crown, Order Crown, & Thief. You may chose yourself.

Thanks Playtesters!!
 
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Levi Mote
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After more play test feedback, I'm thinking of removing some duplicates of Specialty Cards and making more of them unique.

The Fates card will likely stay at 2 copies.
The second Thief will be replaced by "Tax Collector - Take 1 coin from each other player"

I'm open to ideas for the others.

Best,
Levi
 
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Levi Mote
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Still looking for Print and Play playtesters.

All feedback is welcomed and encouraged.
 
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