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Subject: Errors in Rio Grande version ? rss

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Nick Fisk
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Come on you Seagulls! Sami Hyppia's Blue & White army!
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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Just opened a copy of this one.

The King has a I on the back, and one of the Farmers has a V on the back.

And three of the dice have an extra pip on the 2, 4 and 6 (making three 1-3-3-5-5-7 dice)


.... anyone else with the same problem(s) ??


N.

 
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Nick Fisk
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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generalpf wrote:
Scott Nicholson had a similar problem with his copy from Nuremberg, I believe. He even submitted the dice as a photo.

Isn't the letter on the back the Roman numeral for how many players you need to include it? Then the King would have an I (I guess it should be a II?) and one of the Farmers would have a V, since he's only in for a 5-player game, no?



No ... the letters actually refer to how strong the cards are, but thye King and Queen should be the only 5's, while all teh farmers should be 1's. We just have two that are switched. Doesn't affect the game in any way at all, really!

The dice were odd though ..... but 12 similar dice aren;t hard to find.


N.

 
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Jim Cote
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Moviebuffs wrote:
The dice were odd though ..... but 12 similar dice aren;t hard to find.


A game like this with so poor a production run is just asking to be home-made (ie not bought).
 
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Garry Lloyd
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Nick

My RGG version, which I picked up at Essen has the same mistake with the cards, although that's not really a problem: the numbers only help to speed up the set-up of the game. No problems with the dice though: all perfect 1-6es.
 
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Chuck Easterlin
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More Rio Grande mess ups?

{Scurries off to remove this from ThoughtHammer cart}.

 
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Michael Ciucci
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Thanks for the info! I have a farmer who has a V and the the king has a I! I have TWO screwed up dice! One has two 3's on it and another has two 3's AND two fives! I noticed the card thing but I would have never noticed the dice thing. Luckily, I have about 8 million dice laying around to substitutshakeshakee, but still...
 
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Matt
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Well, this is really discouraging. yuk
I haven't bought any games with dice since Settlers of Catan, and I was looking forward to an easy lunch hour game with some over the top dice action. But if the parts are all messed up, I might wait for a second print. Is it possible that RGG will try to fix this? Or should I not expect a correction?
 
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John Earles
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I crossed my fingers and toes as I opened my box....

Whew! My dice are fine. I do have the King / Farmer roman number mix-up, but I can deal with that.

Not great, considering the time it took to arrive Canada-side ( ironically because of print difficulties blush ), but at least it has finally arrived.
 
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Chris Bailey
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chuckimus wrote:
More Rio Grande mess ups?

{Scurries off to remove this from ThoughtHammer cart}.



Your loss. Personally, I don't have a problem with the back of one card being mismarked since you play with all of the cards face up and open.
 
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Shawn Low
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ixnay66 wrote:
chuckimus wrote:
More Rio Grande mess ups?

{Scurries off to remove this from ThoughtHammer cart}.


Your loss. Personally, I don't have a problem with the back of one card being mismarked since you play with all of the cards face up and open.


Yeah, but the screwy dice are a problem. Sure, D6s are easy enough to replace BUT why should one have to do so when a game is expected to work right out of the box?
 
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Jay Tummelson
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I am sorry to read this - this is the first I have heard or seen anything regarding this problem. I have just rechecked the pre-production sample and all dice and cards are correct. I have contacted the printer and will find out what happened and will correct the problem (including those copies already sold) as soon as possible.

I apologize for the problem.

Jay
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John Earles
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From today's Rio Grande Games homepage (http://www.riograndegames.com/):

Quote:
Problems with "To Court the King"

I have just learned of serious production problems with To Court the King. Some, but not all of the dice have an extra pip on them so that some of the dice are 1-3-3-5-5-7 instead of the standard 1-2-3-4-5-6. Also, two cards are misprinted: the King and one of the Farmers have the wrong roman number on their backs (the King has a I instead of V and the Farmer has V instead of I).

Accordingly, I have stopped shipping the game and asked my retailers and distributors to stop selling the game. I plan to have all unsold games returned to my warehouse where I will have the problems corrected. Once I have corrected components, I will offer them for those customers who already have copies of the games with incorrect components.

I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused and am working with the printer to correct this problem as quickly as possible. Thanks for your patience and understanding.


Kudos to Jay for taking quick action to resolve the dice and card misprint issues, and for offering replacement components for any of us with the defects.
 
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Robert Zurfluh
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Amigo had some quality problems in the recent past. The dice thingy was a known issue in the spring, and I can't believe they would ship them to Jay with the same mistake.

In the recent past Amigo had problems with the Oltremare printing of the ships. They had numerous problems with their free 6 Nimmt expansion as well. It's sad shake
 
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Boards & Bits
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First, I have to say that I'm disappointed when I see people pointing fingers at Jay/Rio Grande for errors such as this. You can bet that Jay does everything possible to prevent errors like this. It certainly is not as though he doesn't care and wants to ship crap.

Second, in a game such as this, do we *really* care that there is a misprint such as this? It has zero impact on game play. The dice are another issue, but as someone said, there are plenty of D6's around the house.

Whatever happened to giving people the benefit of a doubt? Wait until the facts are in to blame someone, if you need to blame anyone at all.

And what about compassion? Can't we appreciate that Jay has given all of us so much and will for many years to come and be glad that we're not in his shoes? Can't we give something back by *not* making him waste money and time on this?

I've actually asked Jay to reconsider recalling the games, which essentially just costs everyone more time and money that could be spent on a NEW game from Rio Grande.

Yes, it's disappointing, and yes, it would be great if this never happened. But it did, and it's NO BIG DEAL. Can we ignore it and please move on?

Please let Jay know if you can live without a "perfect" copy of To Court the King (Jay, please don't hate me if you get a ton of email ).

I'll do my part by inspecting every copy I sell to make sure it has the correct dice, if you can all help by living with the misprint.

Show Jay you care!!

Tom
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Paul Sauberer
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I think Jay is doing the right thing by taking care of the problems with this game, both morally and from a self-interested standpoint. Trying to convince him that it's OK to distribute defective games does Jay a disservice IMO.

Sure there are a number of Geeks who would give him a pass because Jay is a nice guy and has done a lot for the hobby over the years. However, I would not want to pin the future of Jay and Rio Grande to the goodwill of what would undoubtedly be a relatively small number of people like that.

My guess is that the majority of those who purchase Rio Grande Games have no clue who Jay Tummelson is, nor do they care. All they want is a game to play. If they get one that has a confusing misprint and dice that are unusuable, yeah, maybe they could work around it and supply their own components but they will be far less likely to purchase a Rio Grande game in the future. Plus there will be those who purchase at an FLGS and return it, creating ill will for Jay not only with customers, but with retailers. That would not be a good thing.

Also, quality has become an issue at Rio Grande of late. After the issues with Goa and El Grande, I don't think it would be a good idea for Jay to gloss over this one. If Rio Grande gets the reputation for putting out flawed games, that would not be helpful in a market where there are now far more publishers of similar games than there used to be. Simply put, Jay can't afford to have frequent quality problems when there is so much competition for the gaming dollar.

Kudos go to Jay for addressing this issue quickly and without ambiguity. It demonstrates that he cares about the quality of his product and is not satisfied with putting out games that can be used with enough workarounds and having the customer alter/replace components.
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Jon Greisz
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I'm willing to give him a pass. I have no problem with the cards as it doesn't affect gameplay. Even the dice does not really bother me much, as I have tons around.

Too bad I just finished an order, I didn't add this due to the recall, guess it will have to wait for the next order.

I think that Jay is just recalling it due to the bad press he's gotten over the last 2 mistakes, bad timing on this. Bet he checks next time before he sends stuff out the door. I don't think the recall is necessary, just send out cards and dice replacements to those that request them. And fix the unshipped versions.
 
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Chuck Easterlin
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I tried my best not to post a reply but I just can't help it.

I agree with everything Paul has stated above. If you take it at face value, yeah it's just a handful of d6 and one misprinted card (the error on the card really has no impact on the game). The bigger picture here though is people get tired of shelling out money and receiving products with "pdf errors", components of questionable quality to cost ratios and poor quality control.

I wouldn't know Jay if I was behind him in line at the grocery store. I do know "the name" however, and I realize what he does for the hobby. I don't think anyone has made any personal attacks. This has nothing to do with the man behind the curtains, it has to do with what type of image RGG projects to it's customer base.

Do I think a product recall is necessary? No, but I would do my best to ensure that I had an agreement with the major online retailers to ship a courtesy set of dice with the game. I'm not sure how I would handle the FLGS... other than try to get the word out that you could get a free set by going to the website and ordering.




 
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Doobermite
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I'm happy to see the game will be redone. I can live with the misprints in the new El Grande but I would unfortunately have to pass on this new game if the errors and dice were not going to be corrected.

In my opinion, Rio Grande did the right thing, and once the game is released again, I will gladly purchase it.

Yes, in the scope of life it's no big deal. There are certainly more important things going on in the world. But for those of us that love our hobby it means more to us than the average Joe. We want our games to look good, play good, and be complete. Rio Grande is going the extra step to ensure our satisfaction.

 
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Matt
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dbmite wrote:
But for those of us that love our hobby it means more to us then the average Joe. We want our games to look good, play good, and be complete. Rio Grande is going the extra step to ensure our satisfaction.


This is especially important in the context of introducing designer games to friends and family. For example, when I brought home Lost Cities, my wife was very curious and excited to try it out. It had the presentation of a great game. However, if I had brought out a deck of cards with a makeshift 5th suit borrowed from another deck and just tried to teach the rules of Lost Cities, her initial reaction would not have been nearly as positive. Our first game was filled with discussion of the wonderful quality of the cards, and the momentum of that conversation led to a glowing review once we'd been through a few rounds.

The art work and quality of a game has a lot to do with how it is accepted by casual gamers. If it's not packaged as nicely as Monopoly, it's going to have a hard time replacing Monopoly as a "great game" in their minds. Most people who are willing to sit down to a board game will initially judge it by the appearance, not by its rank on some website for geeks.

I really want my co-workers to like this game. I want them to be impressed when I bring it in. I want them to like it better than Yahtzee. But if some of the pieces aren't right, and you have to mix in some non-matching dice from Yahtzee, it's just not going to present itself as a superior game to Yahtzee.
 
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Chris Bailey
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dbmite wrote:
Quote:
The dice are another issue, but as someone said, there are plenty of D6's around the house.

To expect me to shell out money for a game then tell me to ignore the printing errors and then go find myself a whole bunch of dice from around the house is insulting, especially from a site that sells games.


When did Jay from Rio Grande games tell you that's what you were going to have to do if you bought this game? Never? Yeah, that's what I thought. Jay has already started told all of the retailers to stop selling them so he can resolve this issue. I don't know if that means recalling the game or sending out free replacements but making statements like you're doing here without getting the facts from Rio Grande is in your words, "insulting."
 
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Kai Peters
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I would be interested in the defect dice ... anyone willing to trade?
 
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Paul Sauberer
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ixnay66 wrote:
dbmite wrote:
Quote:
The dice are another issue, but as someone said, there are plenty of D6's around the house.

To expect me to shell out money for a game then tell me to ignore the printing errors and then go find myself a whole bunch of dice from around the house is insulting, especially from a site that sells games.


When did Jay from Rio Grande games tell you that's what you were going to have to do if you bought this game? Never? Yeah, that's what I thought. Jay has already started told all of the retailers to stop selling them so he can resolve this issue. I don't know if that means recalling the game or sending out free replacements but making statements like you're doing here without getting the facts from Rio Grande is in your words, "insulting."


When did the poster say that Jay told him those things? Never? Yeah, that's what I thought.

If you look closely (or not even terribly closely) at the portion of the post that was replied to (and that you yourself even quoted and is repeated here just to make it easier to see) you will notice that he was responding to a post by Tom of Boards & Bits (a site that sells games, BTW). Tom had said that everyone should just let this slide and ignore the misprint and provide their own components to replace the defective ones. That's what the poster was incredulous about.

Is that clearer? Maybe we should each delete our respective snippy posts. Deal?
 
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Gone Fishing
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Time for me to jump into this burning ring of fire, as I almost always can be counted on to do.

I always guage the quality of a game based on what a minimum wage worker has to go through in order to earn enough money after taxes to purchase that game. That person deserves a quality, error free production, and they shouldn't be told to "overlook" small errors, because they didn't buy those small errors.

I have to give Jay the highest praise for taking this issue head on in such a responsible manner.

I would only have a problem with the corrective action if it would cause the downfall of Rio Grande, but as it stands, Jay taking this step will bolster and strengthen his brand name even more in my eyes and others.
 
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Jon Greisz
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I don't think Tom said that the problem shouldn't be taken care of. He said he didn't think a recall was needed, and he would replace the dice. Leaving only the backs of 2 cards being the issue, something that is only important in the setup of the game.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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JonnyG wrote:
I don't think Tom said that the problem shouldn't be taken care of. He said he didn't think a recall was needed, and he would replace the dice. Leaving only the backs of 2 cards being the issue, something that is only important in the setup of the game.


Well, Tom said this

Quote:
Second, in a game such as this, do we *really* care that there is a misprint such as this? It has zero impact on game play. The dice are another issue, but as someone said, there are plenty of D6's around the house.


and this

Quote:
Can't we give something back by *not* making him waste money and time on this?


and this

Quote:
Yes, it's disappointing, and yes, it would be great if this never happened. But it did, and it's NO BIG DEAL. Can we ignore it and please move on?


and this

Quote:
Please let Jay know if you can live without a "perfect" copy of To Court the King (Jay, please don't hate me if you get a ton of email ).


and this

Quote:
I'll do my part by inspecting every copy I sell to make sure it has the correct dice, if you can all help by living with the misprint.


It certainly sounds like he is saying that the problem should be ignored (using just that word, as a matter of fact) and everyone should just live with it, taking care of it themselves.

 
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