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Subject: Reboot - feedback thread rss

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John Paul Messerly
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It looks like the Kickstarter was cancelled and will be rebooted soon. Backers on kickstarter are giving feedback on what they would like to see in the reboot but this is a place for the rest of us to speak our minds...

///

I'm excited about the new solo focus of the reboot. The two things that discouraged me from kickstarting the game were the number of players (I don't play 2 player vs miniature wargames anymore) and the scale (the size of the hexes seemed to require a massive gaming table).

I'd love to see:

1. Smaller scale hexes/board. Something the size of TAL would be great but nothing larger than Fleet Commander Nimitz, please.

2. More dynamic Mechs. I know everyone had their own opinions and you can never please everyone but take a look at Heavy Gear, Votoms, and Titanfall to see how dynamic mechs can be. These mechs all have hands and hold weapons (no gun hands) and this makes their posing more interesting and dynamic.

3. Focus on mech pilots and crew. The best thing about Dan's games are how much you care about your pilots. I'd love to see this in a mech game.

4. Ramping up the action. Titanfall does something interesting were battles always start off small with infantry and then the mechs come in later giving each battle an interesting raising tension. Something like this could help keep the battles from all feeling the same. I also really love the reactive elements in Warfighter. Instead of going into battle knowing exactly what you are facing, enemies are revealed as you move so your plans have to be fluid.
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Mike Malley
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I think even 1.5" hexes would keep it from being excessively large.
 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Eject seats for pilots
Add on crew for vehicles, experienced crew etc
Stress -> morale
Hostile environment - NBC plus extreme weather as in earth gone mad http://www.dvg.com/.sc/ms/dd/ee/11/Earth%20Gone%20Mad%21
More Darker and desperate like Global Domination type world http://www.dvg.com/.sc/ms/dd/ee/44/Global%20Domination
Some assembly required so legs arms head and torso allows for different posture and agree dynamic poses needed
 
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Dan Verssen
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Great ideas! Thank you!

I am working on the revised game now.
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Robert Johnson
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I only watched a few vids of the flow - just seemed like the units were very fragile.... might be wrong, just thought units would hang on a few turns for such a large map - seemed like one hit=death.
 
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Vladimir Lehotai
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DanVerssen wrote:

I am working on the revised game now.


Dan, after reading your intended changes in the KS comments, it sounds that Valkyrie might interest me after all. Unless you start wave 3 for Warfighter in the meantime.

mermuse wrote:


2. More dynamic Mechs. I know everyone had their own opinions and you can never please everyone but take a look at Heavy Gear, Votoms, and Titanfall to see how dynamic mechs can be. These mechs all have hands and hold weapons (no gun hands) and this makes their posing more interesting and dynamic.


On the other hand I prefer the Battletech/Mechwarrior type design.
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Jorge Alvarez
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I'd like to add my two cents. Part of what attracted me to Valkyrie (besides mechs) is that it seemed to be more accessible in terms of rules and learning the game than other similar games. That, and the potential replay value with all the customization included. I hope that DVG can find a good balance between adding more of the strategy and upkeep elements that many seem to be asking for, and a somewhat more accessible, but still badass and customizable medium to medium-light mechs wargame.
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Mike Malley
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Has anyone heard anything about the reboot? I hope Dan hasn't changed his mind.
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Georg Bauer
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Well, at least it doesn't look like it is high up on their priority list. But then, they had several KS successfully funding and are not a big company, so I guess they have their hands full of work already.
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Mike Malley
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Back in January he said, "I'm hoping for summer."
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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With WW2 WF at the printer (finally - the KS was huge!)
DVG posted that B-17 Leader was next and that Sherman Leader (with Tiger leader add on) to follow.
I'm not sure where Valk will fit in.
Hopefully not too far down the development list.
 
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Georg Bauer
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Well, I really wish they would stop catering to the WWII fan crowd. I understand it, as it sells, but still, I am looking for stuff from more different conflicts. The near-future fictious conflict of Valkyrie was something really tempting for me, but something for the pre-WWI times would be great, too. Maybe some alt-history fiction thing with big oil-powered mechs or something like that. Sadly it looks that DVG is mostly preoccupied with WWII and modern conflicts, which more often than not leave me cold. The original WF for example was great, but to really get me in it would need something more, something that pulls me in from the side. And that's definitely neither generic modern-day conflicts nor WWII. Oh well, lets just hope Valkyrie comes out one day and carries a strong solo mode, at least for that one I am in the target audience
 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Would you buy a Steam Punk Warfighter?

I'm willing to put a design case to Dan!

Artwork could be a challenge...

But Steam/rather/electro war gear exoskeletons and automations along side a Martini Henry could be fun!
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Georg Bauer
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davidinsydney2 wrote:
Would you buy a Steam Punk Warfighter?


Man, I instantly threw my wallet against the screen, but nothing happened. That would be so much an auto-buy, you have no idea. Dieselpunk (think Scythe, thematically) would probably be even more my thing, but "gritty steampunk" (Iron Kingdoms or DragonMech style) would be fantastic.
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Diesel punk would be a reasonable add on to WW2 Warfighter.

Don you M1 Ranger or Mk2 Stalward or PzKpl Jäger suit, bolt on the standard WW2 weapons or something more exotic and away you go!

The Hostiles would have more heavier and/or exotic units.

Of course there too could be Cthulu and Hydes and machine-animal hybrids and....
 
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Georg Bauer
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davidinsydney2 wrote:
Diesel punk would be a reasonable add on to WW2 Warfighter.

Don you M1 Ranger or Mk2 Stalward or PzKpl Jäger suit, bolt on the standard WW2 weapons or something more exotic and away you go!

The Hostiles would have more heavier and/or exotic units.

Of course there too could be Cthulu and Hydes and machine-animal hybrids and....


Make it happen!
 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Near future Powered Infantry Gear could also easily add to current War Fighter Special Forces.

Which do you think would satisfy a gap in the market?
 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Of course the opportunity to make NBC environment location cards is there as well.
 
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Georg Bauer
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Well, both series could work with alt-history additions, be it near-future stuff for the Modern Warfighter or Dieselpunk gear for WWII warfighter. I think both are valid targets and both would provide something that is missing from the market. But I don't think they could provide anything nice as a specific design for something where this is not an expansion, but the focus. Too much of the two base games is really tied thematically into it's respective line.

In that regard, I think a Dieselpunk / Weird War II addition to the WWII warfighter might be the more exciting idea, and probably will have a higher momentum. The reason I think that is that WWII is a good thematic carrier for many people and if someone is interested in alt-history, they might be more tempted into something that has the "history" part grounded in something more realistic as a near-future scenario would provide.

Even if that means I will have to buy all of WWII Warfighter to be able to play it. Dammit. Near-future Modern Warfighter would probably be a good deal cheaper, as I allready own everything from that

I think the dangers of Modern Warfighter Near Future expansions going into a "bad fic tion with crappy guns" situation is quite high. That or "wow, the future part of this is really bad, doesn't feel like future at all". It works fine with for example Night of Man, but there you have rather abstract human troups, where it doesn't go into too much detail on their part. They mostly look the same as normal soldiers, only adding some "weird" powers, but the level of detail for Warfighter is much greater. A SciFi situation might easily make the non-scifi parts feel out of place, I think.

Dieselpunk has the nice feature of delivering "believable" scifi - you don't go completely overboard, as you have to base your invented stuff on somehow realistic restrictions, so your hovercars won't use antigrav, they would have to be based off real hovercrafts. Your mechs would be based on realistic restrictions, as you can't carry a magic energy source, but are limited in the energy provided in a dieselpunk scenario, so if you don't want your mech to be accompanied by several diesel trucks, you probably need to think about that and incorporate it in your design. Maybe have powered exosuits, but those will be clunky and probably resource-limited, which would work fine with the WF model - they can carry you through some locations, based on the entry costs, but than will have to be left behind, since they ran out of power.

Your beasts will be slow if they are big and can carry a lot, because that's what you feel is the right thing in such a scenario, whereas scifi can just invent crap out of thin air. Which is a bit why I prefer dieselpunk over some steampunk variants, at least those where they throw magic into the steampunk universe, as that are cheap copouts.

Gritty steampunk is as fine as dieselpunk, but gritty steampunk (as in non-magic powered) probably would require DVG to come up with an American Civil War Warfighter, first (which would be awesome!)
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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One of the challenges would be when does diesel possible become sci fi or magic.

Eg exoskeleton suit that you attached weapons and armour to.
Adds Loadout and/or movement and/or Defeat Cover and/or Hand to Hand but costs RP and Size and Breakdown and Fuel.

WW2 weapons - eg PzFst Battery on left shoulder and MG 42 in right arm.

But what about a Tesla Coil Cannon?
Would that be Diesel Punk or Sci Fi or Magic?
After all it might be not much different to a MG42 in effect (except for its high AT penetration and a recharge time from your diesel-electric generator

I suppose I'm trying to work out the boundaries of the Genre.
Is it today's tech powered by diesel?
Is it alchemy in the 40's (eg Hydes)
Is it Buck Rogers rocket guns or Flash Gordon Ray guns (pulp fiction genre)
What about Rocketeers flight packs?

Can you recommend any books/movies to get a feel for the punk that appeals?




 
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Georg Bauer
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well, most of the "punk" genres go from a realistic/historic starting point and extrapolate a believable story. Cyberpunk takes today and extrapolates networks further on, steam punk the age of steam, dieselpunk mostly pre-WWII, or WWII itself. If you can describe your technology by "refined technology of that age" you are golden. Dieselpunk cheats by having better refined gas, maybe invent some "comcentration" to get around the problem of fuel logistics for exosuits. Stuff like that. I don't know of good books or movies for dieselpunk - as I wrote, a good game that carries dieselpunk in its theme would be Scythe - the art of that game should give you a good feel for the theme. If DVG had a WWI warfighter set, things would be easier, as there you would have more ways to extrapolate from - WWII is already quite modern. But I think the stuff in warfighter - due to its close combat focus - is quite mallable.

Just don't throw in magic as cheap copout. Or Cthulhu.

Oh, and tesla coils are steam punk (due to the historic time frame), not dieselpunk. keep your punks sorted
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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My cheap cop out

Disealizium

A rare additive to diesel that allows for small power plants.

An interesting limitation is that its effectiveness decreases with the amount in the vicinity - even if in seperate containers.
And camera film becomes useless.

This makes it useful for powering exoskeletons and similar but Tanks are still tanks and not land ships*.

Other factors - the exhaust fumes are nasty and extended exposure tends to have random (usually fatal) effects. Which could explain why it's discoverer Madame Curie died at a young age.

* were as steam punk relies on Densidium which has interesting effects on the density of steam contained within a boiler made of it - such that powerful boilers made of it could be made small.

How do those sound?
 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Of the diesel punk possibilities

I'm thinking that for the player soldiers
Exoskeleton suits and cyborg would be the most fun for players.

The Hostiles can have:
Punk Tankettes
Punk Helicopters
Punk Automatons
Punk Animal cyborgs

My thinking being that the exoskeletons and cyborg are the most in keeping with WF soldier design/equipments/mobility etc.

Tankettes would need special rules for some Locations like Buildings or Marsh.

 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Further thinking:
Two expansions to WF WW2:
Exp D1 -
Dieselium Hostiles - 14 Hostiles to add to each WW2 nation (US, UK, USSR & Germany)
Exp D2 -
Dieselium Soldiers - 12 Soldiers Dieselium Gear to add to each WW2 nation (US, UK, USSR & Germany). 6 new locations, 2 new missions

That way if you want just to play with or against normal WW2 you only need buy one expansion.

Both would come with the same one page of rules.

Ready to get gritty ( and smell of diesel and glow in the dark)?
 
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Georg Bauer
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Well, sounds like you have a plan there
 
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