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Subject: Lelgend 5 rss

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Andreas
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Lost Legend 5 again yesterday:
The Team consisted of: Runed Wizard, Warrior and Dwarf with Helmets, Archer. We had three herbs, two witch potions and two shields. Together with Thorald we had a combined strenght of 36. We decided against the Shield Dwarfs due to the overall situation at the Castle. We had almost two complete days for the fight but nevertheless lost.

We saw three drawn turns at a total strength 78, and lost some turns by a margin of 1 or 2 only.
Looking a the black dice, the Dragon will roll at least double 10s frequently.
Do you have a strategy when to use potions and herbs? Would it be better to buy strength points instead of potions and shields (The dwarf had max strngth)?

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Andreas Krüger
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Here are as few threads that discuss the dragon fight:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1322130/dissapointment-...
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1029888/some-dragonhunt...
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/926910/defeating-dragon

The first is probably not useful, but the others may.
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Joe Macfarland

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We're having the same trouble. We've lost legend 5 three times. In the last game, we played with three characters (Dwarf, Archer, Warrior). We obtained three witches brew, freed Prince Thorald, obtained the Dwarven allies, and placed the archer in the tower. On this count, I think we were doing pretty well. I think the warriors' combined strength was 23 (10+6+7=23), +4 for the dwarven allies, +2 for the tower, for a base of 29. (Naturally we couldn't include Prince Thorald in the fight with the dragon--too bad, he might have put us over the top.) We had one herb worth 4 (for the first round of combat only), and the warrior had a helm, and three witches brew (as mentioned above).

But the base strength of the dragon, with three players, is 44. soblue The dragon rolls three black dice, and counts doubles (but not triples), so the minimum score is 54, and the average is somewhat higher (we saw several 64's, 44+2*10, nothing higher).

To win this, we needed to score consistently in high 50s, probably above 56 (after all, we didn't need to win every round, just five rounds, with losses interspersed). If we could score 57 on a regular basis, we just need a few 54s and 56s to turn up.

I've read all the posts mentioned above, but I'm still lacking something here to finish this one out. I have also played Legends of Andor: Journey to the North and had similar difficulties with the Cracken. We decided to concentrate on finishing 5 before returning to the Cracken.

What can we do? Get more strength points, perhaps? We could have taken fewer willpower points as rewards, and focused on gold. Perhaps we should have played with wizard (he can't use witches brew, but he can help others get doubles). Not sure. Perhaps we should have tried to get that one more herb? But it was several hours out of the way. Advice is welcome.
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Andreas Krüger
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Wolfram wrote:
cordeiro wrote:
cordeiro wrote:
The FFG published version says 3 black dice for the dragon, adding doubles. So, 40 is the minimum, and 54 is the max. And you're going to roll a fair number of doubles, which means you can expect a lot of dragon rolls in the 42-50 range.

Our experience (2-player) is that it was doable but very difficult without any witch's brew. We needed plenty of time to go round after round until we got enough low dragon rolls to get through the 5 dragon cards. And that was using the runes and the prince to boost our rolls into the mid 40s.

I didn't think you added triples, just doubles, though I could be wrong. So, minimum is 10 and max is 24 (12x2). And then you have to add the dragon's strength, which is 30 for a 2-player game.


You add all dice showing the same number, not only doubles. So min. is 12+30 and max. is 36+30, whereas with red dice it would be 3+30 resp. 18+30.
Which is a significant difference IMO.

The German word is "Pasch" which will mostly be translated as double, but it includes all dice showing the same number. So it's double, triples, quadruples, quintibles,.... Wait for "Journey into the North".


From the first link. So I think it is even more difficult.
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Joe Macfarland

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This is from the card B, scenario 5: "If all 3 dice produce the same result, only add 2 of the dice together." (This is quoted further down in the same thread.)

As the first link notes, there appears to be a difference between the English and German versions. Since English version is explicit, and I don't have the German to compare, I play by the English version.

Incidentally, the post in the first link references "Journey to the North" (which I have in German, not English). Here, the "Oktohan" (what I called the "Cracken" above) rolls three white dice; the card states that, "gleiche Würfelwerte werden addiert," that is, the "same" dice-values are added--the word "Pasch" does not appear there. This leads me to wonder whether the word "Pasch" quoted in the original, German Andor should be understood as "doubles," and not as all dice of the same value (I notice that dict.cc does not give "triples" for a translation of "Pasch," nor does it give "Pasch" as a translation of "triples"). It seems that the English translation as well as Legends of Andor: Journey to the North avoids the alleged ambiguity about Pasch. But I probably shouldn't speculate about the meaning of German words with German players!!
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Joe Macfarland

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Now I notice that the game designer in another thread says that the dragon adds triples, contrary to the explicit wording of the English edition (in the third link above). We are faced with "the intentional fallacy."

But really, I don't want to debate rules (as fun as that is), I want some help in figuring out how to improve my odds with that dragon. Thanks!
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Andreas
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We came to the conclusion that time is criritcal. Therefore we didnt wait until we could Lure the Dragon to the Tower but atacked him in the Woods/the mine (se we had 2 days for the battle)
For the next try we will always shift the critical equipment (herbs, brews) to the player last in this combat so he can calculate if it is worth using it or not
It is also worth calculating if buying additional brews or additional strength Points is better. Brews can be used twice, strenth points over the complete battle...
Without the runes, a maxed out dwarf and proper amount of shields, brews, helmets, herbs it is anyway pointless to battle the Dragon.

By the way; we have also added up triples, but these are not as critical as the very frequent doubles (especially double 10s). For 4 players we came to the conclusion that we frequently have to beat 78 Dragon strenght Points for a good Chance...

We will see the nety time... ;-)
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Joe Macfarland

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Thanks for the suggestions, especially not waiting for the tower. I only now realize now that you might be able to use Prince Thorald if you don't wait for the tower (Thorald is +4, the tower is only +2).

I have consistently freed the castle and put the farmers there BEFORE combatting the dragon... do you combat the dragon first? And if so, what do you do with the farmers??? Keeping them alive seems absolutely critical.

I had the same thought about witches brew after our last game: with three players, including the archer, we spent 9 gold on 3 witches brews. This permits, for example, two characters to have a bonus on three combats. If the average bonus is +5 (assuming you use it on rolls of 4, 5, or 6), then you are getting a +10 bonus across three rounds of combat.

But you need to defeat the dragon 4 or 5 times. 9 gold could be used to increase the dwarf's strength by 9 points across any number of rounds of combat.

Ideally, one should have witches brew and a dwarf with a maxed-out strength, but I haven't figured out how to acquire enough gold to do this.

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Andreas
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We usually battle the dragon the last two days. This gives you one day with Thorald. The farmers need to be brought to the castle before, of course. Especially because you loose time with every farmer you loose.

Gold can be collected by killing the srong monsters. We usually hope to get the poison and kill small monsters with it, while fighting the big ones for gold...

The more equipment and strength points the better. But how much you can collect strongly depends on the circumastances of each game...
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Joe Macfarland

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Played again, victorious at last. We were a little more fortunate than last time: fewer monsters around the castle gave us a little more leeway in pursuing our strategy. The fate cards gave us an extra medicinal herb.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We played with four players rather than three. We collected ALL the money we could find, whenever possible we killed trolls and skralls rather than gors and took only money for reward, and we spent almost all the money on strength points, first maxing out the dwarf, but also increasing the strength of other players by a lot. Our combained strength was 43, 47 with Thorald. We did without witches brew, prefering strength points.

We did make errors that I thought would cause us to lose: we failed to rescue one farmer, and we neglected to get the shield dwarves. The first error meant that we could not wait until the dragon came to the tower (b/c the "N" marker already starts at "L" with four players, and it moved to "K" when the farmer was killed. We finished the battle with the dragon on the last hour of the last day (albeit, we could have spent willpower for another hour or two).


It was a very near thing. I don't feel at all that I have this scenario beat.
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Andreas Krüger
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Dragon odds
These odds may be interesting for you if you have difficulties with the dragon:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/21741913#21741913
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Mirjam Molenkamp
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Can someone explain how many monster tiles are put on the track?
You first resolve 5, then have to roll a die to see where another will be placed on the track. The card then explains that there can be no more than two on any space on the track, but it doesn't state that you should place all 10 remaining tiles. We did anyway, but when we reached the shield dwarves that card stated that they would join when we resolved 3 of the 5 remaining tiles

What did we do wrong? How many tiles should be put on the track?

(we lost btw, we first went after the dragon, with succes, but couldn't clear out the castle in time because the marker goes up each time you kill something)
 
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Dmitriy Razumov
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Mirjam42 wrote:
Can someone explain how many monster tiles are put on the track?
You first resolve 5, then have to roll a die to see where another will be placed on the track. The card then explains that there can be no more than two on any space on the track, but it doesn't state that you should place all 10 remaining tiles. We did anyway, but when we reached the shield dwarves that card stated that they would join when we resolved 3 of the 5 remaining tiles

What did we do wrong? How many tiles should be put on the track?

(we lost btw, we first went after the dragon, with succes, but couldn't clear out the castle in time because the marker goes up each time you kill something)
At the setup of the game you will use 10 out of 15 tiles - 5 are to resolve and 5 are to place on a track.

Do not put 5 remaining tiles in the box, you may need 3 of them if you will choose to use dwarfs.

So in particular game you may use 13 out of 15 monster tiles.
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Mirjam Molenkamp
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Ok, thanks for the explanation. Could you tell me where this is explained in the setup? I couldn't find it.
 
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