Dan Thorpe
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Quote:
The Twins
Upgrade: Sysop • Rez: 2 • Trash: 2 • Influence: 1
Whenever the Runner passes a rezzed piece of ice protecting this server, you can reveal and trash another copy of that ice from HQ to force the Runner to encounter the piece of ice just passed again.


Quote:
Crescentus
Program • Install: 1 • Memory: 1 • Influence: 1
Derez a piece of ice. Use this ability only after breaking all the subroutines of that ice during a single encounter.


Scenario 1:
Runner has Crescentus installed. Corp has unrezzed The Twins installed and 1 Ice. Doesnt matter what it is.

1. Runner makes a run on appropriate server.
2. Corp rezzes Ice.
3. Runner breaks Ice.
4. Runner fires Crescentus to derez Ice / Corp rezzes The Twins to reveal another copy of said Ice for runner to encounter.

Scenario 2:
The exact same situation except The Twins is already rezzed before the run / before encounter of the Ice.

Outcomes:
1. Derez occurs first and The Twins can no longer fire because it requires a rezzed piece of Ice.

2. The Twins fires first forcing runner to encounter the copy from HQ. Regardless of outcome for the re-encounter, derez happens after.

We played it that both actions (the derez and the Twins rez) being in the paid ability window and so the Runners derez happened first. But would any of that change if The Twins was already rezzed?

If I have missed / ignored other important events etc please say. But what do you think?
 
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I believe Crescentus always fired first because breaking subroutines is done during encounter but passing is after encounter.

Gold for card text.
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For #4, which run step are you talking about? I believe you'll find there isn't a useful one after approach but before passing.
 
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Steven
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I believe your scenario 2 outcome 1 is the correct answer. Cresentus will occur first and derez the ice.

Scenario 1 does not work, because the Twins must be rezzed when the ICE is rezzed to fire after the ICE is passed. Otherwise you rez the Twins too late.
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Jacob Morris
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First of all, only Crescentus is a paid ability. The Twins is a conditional ability.

Check out the timing structure of a run to find the answers. Crescentus, as a paid ability, must be used during a paid ability window. In this case, that window must be 3.1 because you have to use it after breaking all the subs on the ice. The Twins, however, is a conditional ability that triggers on "passing a rezzed piece of ice". This happens in 3.2 if none of the unbroken subs end the run.

Second, notice that 3.1 is only a paid ability window. It does not allow rezzing cards.

So Scenario 1 is not allowed because the Corp can't rez The Twins there.

Scenario 2 is the correct use of The Twins, but it also results in nothing for The Twins. In 3.2 the Runner is passing an unrezzed piece of ice, so The Twins trigger condition is not met and it doesn't trigger at all.
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Dan Thorpe
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SW_Cygnus wrote:
Scenario 1 does not work, because the Twins must be rezzed when the ICE is rezzed to fire after the ICE is passed. Otherwise you rez the Twins too late.


Ahh yes thanks thats another thing he did then which was wrong.

But thanks all for the quick replies. Appreciate the gold too hehe. Card text SHOULD BE MANDATORY
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Chris Long
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jakodrako wrote:
Scenario 2 is the correct use of The Twins, but it also results in nothing for The Twins. In 3.2 the Runner is passing an unrezzed piece of ice, so The Twins trigger condition is not met and it doesn't trigger at all.


Couldn't you rez The Twins at step 2.3? That would be after the runner has decided whether or not to jack out but before ICE encounter. If it's rezzed then its condition should triggger at 3.2, right?
 
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Jacob Morris
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radynski wrote:
jakodrako wrote:
Scenario 2 is the correct use of The Twins, but it also results in nothing for The Twins. In 3.2 the Runner is passing an unrezzed piece of ice, so The Twins trigger condition is not met and it doesn't trigger at all.


Couldn't you rez The Twins at step 2.3? That would be after the runner has decided whether or not to jack out but before ICE encounter. If it's rezzed then its condition should triggger at 3.2, right?


Yes, that's why scenario 2 is correct because it stipulates that The Twins is rezzed either before the run or before the encounter, either of which ensures that The Twins is active when its trigger condition could happen.
 
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