Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Apples to Apples» Forums » General

Subject: Polish government objects to card in game rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Bill Gallagher
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
According to this news article, the Polish government has requested board game publisher Mattel recall all copies of "Apples to Apples" over the description given on one card. It seems that the card "Schindler's List" refers to "Nazi Poland", which they strongly object to for reasons stated in the article.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cyber Puncur
Poland
flag msg tools
Well if people working for Mattel payed more attention to history lessons, they'd know, there was never Nazi Poland but Poland occupied by the Nazi Germany.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin B.
Poland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a bit astonished to hear that they "asked Mattel to withdraw `Apples to Apples,'". Mattel should be sued, not "asked".

And this:

"However, there were instances of individual Poles who helped the Nazis track down Jews to murder, and cases of mass killings of Jews by Poles during the war and after."

is interestingly asymetric. Why didn't they say

"However, there were instances of individual traitors who helped the Germans track down Jews to murder, and cases of mass killings of Jews by murderers during the war and after."

?

I learned my geography and history lessons at school, ya'know, and heard about Poles an Jews, but never heard about this strange nationality, "Nazis".
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mbork wrote:
I'm a bit astonished to hear that they "asked Mattel to withdraw `Apples to Apples,'". Mattel should be sued, not "asked".

It's a bad idea to file a lawsuit with no chance of winning.

I agree that "Nazi Poland" is poor phrasing. The Poles certainly did not choose the Nazis. OTOH, there would not be millions killed in the Holocaust without a large amount of Polish complicity.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maciek Kołaczek
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Barticus88 wrote:
OTOH, there would not be millions killed in the Holocaust without a large amount of Polish complicity.


This is simply not the case. Nazi Germany was occupying Poland at that time and there was no collaborative government of any sort. Of course there were cases of collaboration among people as there were heroic attempts to save the Jews (in spite of the death penalty foreseen for that). The latter were rather more common. Also Polish underground was actively opposed to Holocaust and informed the Western world about what is going on (no sufficient reaction though).
The main point however is that occupants had control over Polish territory back then and were independent in conducting their actions - including mass murders on Jewish and Polish people.
Sorry for the intervention not exactly referring to boardgames, but this is a highly sensitive issue and such statements need an explanation. I stop here.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mateusz Szemraj
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Barticus88 wrote:
OTOH, there would not be millions killed in the Holocaust without a large amount of Polish complicity.


Do you know that Poland lost millions of citizens from the hands of the nazis during II WW? Do you know that whole capital city was grounded by Hitler after Warsaw uprising against nazis (which itself took about 200.000 of casualities)? Do you know that Poland has the biggest amount of Righteous Among the Nations - people recognized for rescuing Jews, despite the fact that penalty for helping was death for the helper and his whole family? Poland is one of the countries who suffered the most to fight nasism. And you are writing about 'complicity'...

This is either pure ignorance or an deliberate insult.

Have a good day.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Let me tell you where I'm coming from. I like Poland. I admired how Solidarity stood up to Communism when the Soviet Union still appeared strong. I admire how Poland has done in the 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union. I fully expected chaos in the aftermath the death of the President and several other officials in a plane crash five years ago, and I was quite impressed with how the Poles got though it.

I am of 100% Jewish descent. My father's father was born in Warsaw. My other grandparents were all born in New York, but the parents of both of my grandmothers were born in Silesia. My mother thinks Silesia is in Austria, but my father knew better, and he was proud to be a Polish Jew. Very few of my relatives in Poland survived WWII.

Taal Tarang wrote:
Do you know that Poland lost millions of citizens from the hands of the nazis during II WW?

Do you know that half of them were Jewish?

Quote:
Do you know that Poland has the biggest amount of Righteous Among the Nations - people recognized for rescuing Jews, despite the fact that penalty for helping was death for the helper and his whole family?

Yes. Poland had the most Jews, Poland had the most Jews killed, Poland had the most Jews protected by the Righteous.

Quote:
Poland is one of the countries who suffered the most to fight nasism.

Definitely. And Poland suffered under other foreign powers in the two centuries from the fall of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth to the fall of the Soviet Union.

Quote:
And you are writing about 'complicity'...

Suffering and complicity are not mutually exclusive. I think the worst thing about Polish complicity with the Nazis is that they are still denying the extent of it. I now the Poles were in fear of the Nazis, but that's the Nuremberg defense. I believe in a moral obligation to resist evil.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mateusz Szemraj
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Barticus88 wrote:
I believe in a moral obligation to resist evil.


Yeah, i agree. And I don't (and i don't think anybody does) deny that there were scum who collaborated with nazis during II WW in Poland. Many of them. Like they were everywhere. If you create hell on earth don't expect everybody to act like angels. Angels are rare. On the other hand only Poland and Ukraine had death penalty for whole family for protecting Jews and still we have the most Righteous. I think that means something...

If you think Poland didn't resist the evil enough - tell me which country did?

And let me tell you where I am coming from. My gradfather went through whole North Africa and Italy fighting nazis. My grandmother was so called 'child of Holocaust'. She was rescued from Warsaw ghetto by Polish girl - a resistance fighter who was 17 years old and later died fighting nazis in Warsaw Uprising. My grandmother was protected (though the penalty was death) and after the war adopted by her family.
BTW, it was my grandmother from my mother's side so I guess according to the tradition I am also a 100% Jew.

So don't tell me about complicity and moral obligations.

I don't expect you to change your point of view but I just don't get one thing. What point you have in diminishing Polish resistance to nazis? It is very sad but the phrase 'Polish deathcamps' has become common in foreign media. Now we have 'Nazi Poland'. These are ordinary lies and as a man who speaks of 'moral obligations' you should admit that.

I am afraid soon we will find out that Hitler was Polish... or was he?

2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cyber Puncur
Poland
flag msg tools
Barticus88 wrote:

Yes. Poland had the most Jews, Poland had the most Jews killed, Poland had the most Jews protected by the Righteous.

I'd rather use the words - The Germans killed most Jews in Poland.

And don't use the phrase Nazis all the time. Those were German soldiers.
There was no country called Naziland, there was Germany.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mateusz Szemraj
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cyberpuncur wrote:

There was no country called Naziland, there was Germany.



There was no Naziland. But to be precise - not all Germans were nazis and not all nazis were Germans. But that's whole other subject and I don't know if we want to start that...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin B.
Poland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Barticus88 wrote:
mbork wrote:
I'm a bit astonished to hear that they "asked Mattel to withdraw `Apples to Apples,'". Mattel should be sued, not "asked".

It's a bad idea to file a lawsuit with no chance of winning.

Hm. Interesting. Does that mean that *if* someone published a game about Jewish atrocities during the WW2, no lawsuit would follow?

And apart from that, filing a lawsuit with no chance of winning *might* sometimes not be a bad idea. (Not sure if this would be the case.)

Barticus88 wrote:
I agree that "Nazi Poland" is poor phrasing.

There is a difference between "poor phrasing" and "impertinent lie".

Barticus88 wrote:
The Poles certainly did not choose the Nazis. OTOH, there would not be millions killed in the Holocaust without a large amount of Polish complicity.

Even assuming this were the case, this wouldn't justify a phrase like "Nazi Poland".
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.