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Subject: "I spoke to one of Gamezones retailers yesterday at Salute." rss

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Copypasta from Orlanth (UK) on the Dakka forums. Hey, it's a slow day.

Quote:
I spoke to one of Gamezones retailers yesterday at Salute.
i go to them most times I attend Salute, and often top up my Bretonnians with Gamezone miniatures from there.

So i figured they would be good people to ask about Heroquest.
They wont pre-order it the reason not to pre-order is because Gamezone is best described as overly laid back.

Gamezone are honest to trade with (though I heard that already from other sources) but are exceptionally disorganised being artists more than businessmen. Catch them on a good day and the work gets done immediately, otherwise you might wait two months before they do anything. Siestas are involved somehow, or so it seems.

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.

Gamezone will work hard to make a quality product, that they can be relied upon to do, their artistic talent is above question, and their ethos of itself is fair.

I was warned that Gamezone is not the best company to send a cheque to unless you see the products being shipped on the day, which doesn't reassure crowdfund backers, but any unreliability is due to their laid back nature rather than any intent to deceive.

Gamezone have frequently answered every question their business customers have set EXCEPT about Heroquest. Those questions just get blanked.

One anecdote given to me so we know what type of people we are dealing with.

Five years ago Gamezone themselves came to Salute, they were well received in the industry and made good business.
They Fed Ex'ed their stock for the day to Salute, it arrived in boxes from Spain and the Gamezone team just came by train. Simple. However they didnt tell anyone about this, so Warlord's (Salute show organisers) had to accept a delivery of several boxes out of the blue which they handled as a courtesy. After the show finished they packed up that stall, refilled the remaining boxes and left the building.

As final packing away just before 7 o clock Warlord's noticed the stack of boxes. As the company manager I spoke to was a trade partner of Gamezone they asked them about the boxes. The manager phoned Gamezone to find they were already on the train home halfway on the way to the channel tunnel. As far as Gamezone were concerned Fed Ex would collect the excess stock the following Monday, completely ignoring that the exhibition centre hiring terminates on the same day (Saturday), and nothing would be allowed to remain by the venue owners. The company manager, as a courtesy to Gamezone, took the boxes amongst the stock they had to take home, and allowed Gamezone to Fed Ex them from their company storeroom rather than Salute.

The impression was that Gamezone are far from a nightmare to deal with, in fact they are rather agreeable, just painfully naive. A bunch of head-in-the-clouds artistes who have no idea how to do business, and are rather innocent.

The trolls at boardgamegeek, which broadly includes the official sanctioned opinion, try to make out Gamezone are a bunch of conmen. I see nothing to support that, but it is clear they have bitten off more than they can chew with Heroquest, and I hope it doesn't hurt them, or us.

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Chris Marlow
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Many thanks for sharing that. I think it perfectly encapsulates the character of the guys at GZ, and goes a long way to explaining why this saga has played out the way it has
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Sam and Max wrote:
Copypasta from Orlanth (UK) on the Dakka forums. Hey, it's a slow day.

Quote:
I spoke to one of Gamezones retailers yesterday at Salute.
i go to them most times I attend Salute, and often top up my Bretonnians with Gamezone miniatures from there.

So i figured they would be good people to ask about Heroquest.
They wont pre-order it the reason not to pre-order is because Gamezone is best described as overly laid back.

Gamezone are honest to trade with (though I heard that already from other sources) but are exceptionally disorganised being artists more than businessmen. Catch them on a good day and the work gets done immediately, otherwise you might wait two months before they do anything. Siestas are involved somehow, or so it seems.

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.

Gamezone will work hard to make a quality product, that they can be relied upon to do, their artistic talent is above question, and their ethos of itself is fair.

I was warned that Gamezone is not the best company to send a cheque to unless you see the products being shipped on the day, which doesn't reassure crowdfund backers, but any unreliability is due to their laid back nature rather than any intent to deceive.

Gamezone have frequently answered every question their business customers have set EXCEPT about Heroquest. Those questions just get blanked.

One anecdote given to me so we know what type of people we are dealing with.

Five years ago Gamezone themselves came to Salute, they were well received in the industry and made good business.
They Fed Ex'ed their stock for the day to Salute, it arrived in boxes from Spain and the Gamezone team just came by train. Simple. However they didnt tell anyone about this, so Warlord's (Salute show organisers) had to accept a delivery of several boxes out of the blue which they handled as a courtesy. After the show finished they packed up that stall, refilled the remaining boxes and left the building.

As final packing away just before 7 o clock Warlord's noticed the stack of boxes. As the company manager I spoke to was a trade partner of Gamezone they asked them about the boxes. The manager phoned Gamezone to find they were already on the train home halfway on the way to the channel tunnel. As far as Gamezone were concerned Fed Ex would collect the excess stock the following Monday, completely ignoring that the exhibition centre hiring terminates on the same day (Saturday), and nothing would be allowed to remain by the venue owners. The company manager, as a courtesy to Gamezone, took the boxes amongst the stock they had to take home, and allowed Gamezone to Fed Ex them from their company storeroom rather than Salute.

The impression was that Gamezone are far from a nightmare to deal with, in fact they are rather agreeable, just painfully naive. A bunch of head-in-the-clouds artistes who have no idea how to do business, and are rather innocent.

The trolls at boardgamegeek, which broadly includes the official sanctioned opinion, try to make out Gamezone are a bunch of conmen. I see nothing to support that, but it is clear they have bitten off more than they can chew with Heroquest, and I hope it doesn't hurt them, or us.



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Quote:
The impression was that Gamezone are far from a nightmare to deal with, in fact they are rather agreeable, just painfully naive. A bunch of head-in-the-clouds artistes who have no idea how to do business, and are rather innocent.

The trolls at boardgamegeek, which broadly includes the official sanctioned opinion, try to make out Gamezone are a bunch of conmen. I see nothing to support that, but it is clear they have bitten off more than they can chew with Heroquest, and I hope it doesn't hurt them, or us.


Which backs up what I've been saying for a while now. Very naive as to how things outside their area of expertise works.

That does not excuse the times they have been deceptive though. But does explain the odd way things have been going really and why it is taking so long.
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Omega2064 wrote:
That does not excuse though the times they have been deceptive though.


Especially with the amount of money they're playing around with.
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The trolls people who point out facts that the backers find unpleasant at boardgamegeek, which broadly includes the official sanctioned opinion, try to make out Gamezone are a bunch of conmen.


There I fixed that for him. whistle

After reading though this, I would be scared if I was a backer. The attitude of someone will take care of things if we leave it behind is concerning. What happens when no one is willing to do that for them?
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Kinosoo wrote:
Quote:
The trolls people who point out facts that the backers find unpleasant at boardgamegeek, which broadly includes the official sanctioned opinion, try to make out Gamezone are a bunch of conmen.


There I fixed that for him. whistle

Yeah. Some fix there, pal.

The biggest grievance one could have with this project is the nature of GameZone Miniatures' copyright to HeroQuest and how authentic to the original GZM can legally make their version of HQ. Sure, the company's inability to meet a deadline is troublesome, but that is the norm for all successfully financed crowdfunded projects if they even get made.

My point is that the people who completely bash this project and predict it to be a failure or a scam before its release or cancellation are trolls regardless if we say so or not, so we might as well say so. S**tpost what you want about the lack of ethics behind this game claiming to be HeroQuest when it legally shouldn't or when it doesn't actually function like the original HQ, but whether or not this game is totally irredeemable remains to be seen.

Granted, I have my doubts with how great the final product will be, but there is still room for hope.
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dagomac wrote:
My point is that the people who completely bash this project and predict it to be a failure or a scam before its release or cancellation are trolls regardless if we say so or not, so we might as well say so. S**tpost what you want about the lack of ethics behind this game claiming to be HeroQuest when it legally shouldn't or when it doesn't actually function like the original HQ, but whether or not this game is totally irredeemable remains to be seen.


So trolls have better business sense than GZ backers?

I'm thinking it's the same "laid back" business attitude which is pretty much behind *everything* that's been brought up against GZ. They're not behaving like professionals, so it shouldn't be surprising that they don't take IP issues seriously, don't respond to their backers, don't release updates, didn't release new sculpts for 10+ years before HQ, had problems with voucher payments, etc. etc. Unlike plastics, resin and metal miniatures have a lower barrier to entry, and often are "one man shops". I don't back new projects by them anymore, because they tend to have long delays (Alien Assimilation Host, Mythical Lairs, Itar's Workshop), and some have bankrupted completely (Center Stage Miniatures).

I'm sure GZ backers will get *something*, but they haven't even entered the shipping phase of a crowdfunding project, much less any US customs issues Moon Design will probably enforce. After seeing the latest problems CMON are having with shipping, and Myth's fulfillment problems, I'm not going to assume fulfillment won't be a problem for GZ, either.

And, even if GZ had the rights to produce HQ, I'd wouldn't have backed the project.
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dagomac wrote:
The biggest grievance one could have with this project is the nature of GameZone Miniatures' copyright to HeroQuest and how authentic to the original GZM can legally make their version of HQ.


Just what people have been saying from the start.

Quote:
Sure, the company's inability to meet a deadline is troublesome, but that is the norm for all successfully financed crowdfunded projects if they even get made.


I expect this from any crowd funded project.

Quote:
My point is that the people who completely bash this project and predict it to be a failure or a scam before its release or cancellation are trolls regardless if we say so or not, so we might as well say so. S**tpost what you want about the lack of ethics behind this game claiming to be HeroQuest when it legally shouldn't or when it doesn't actually function like the original HQ, but whether or not this game is totally irredeemable remains to be seen.


What about the people who have been saying that remaking/reprinting a game without permission, input from the creator or the rights to it is bad for board gaming? These are the people who are being called trolls.

The detractors of GZ are pointing out unpleasant facts. You don't have to like them but that doesn't change them.
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Quote:

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.


What? D: Thanks?
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Kinosoo wrote:
dagomac wrote:
Sure, the company's inability to meet a deadline is troublesome, but that is the norm for all successfully financed crowdfunded projects if they even get made.


I expect this from any crowd funded project.


Right. The point dagomac missed here is that the criticism is NOT the delay, it's the way gamezone denied the possibility of a delay long after it was obvious that December was a pipe dream.

Quote:
The detractors of GZ are pointing out unpleasant facts. You don't have to like them but that doesn't change them.


Right again. There are trolls on both sides of this discussion but the bulk of detractors are simply not and using that as a club to discredit them while not addressing the actual points is incredibly disingenuous.
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Sam and Max wrote:
Copypasta from Orlanth (UK) on the Dakka forums. Hey, it's a slow day.

Quote:


Gamezone are honest to trade with (though I heard that already from other sources) but are exceptionally disorganised being artists more than businessmen. Catch them on a good day and the work gets done immediately, otherwise you might wait two months before they do anything. Siestas are involved somehow, or so it seems.

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.






I've never been a customer of Gamezone, but that's a bullshit generalization.
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perdut wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
Copypasta from Orlanth (UK) on the Dakka forums. Hey, it's a slow day.

Quote:


Gamezone are honest to trade with (though I heard that already from other sources) but are exceptionally disorganised being artists more than businessmen. Catch them on a good day and the work gets done immediately, otherwise you might wait two months before they do anything. Siestas are involved somehow, or so it seems.

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.






I've never been a customer of Gamezone, but that's a bullshit generalization.


It's the first actual dose of anti-nationalism I've seen injected into the argument. There have been plenty of people calling foul on the issue before, but this is the first time it's been warranted.

While the quoted dakka dakka post may have made good points, it's too bad they included that kind of nonsense, which substantially weakens the impact of any points they had made.
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Ah, Orlanth was a guy in here for a few days that just called everyone trolls here at BGG (Tormorent). I read further in the thread where the original quoted post came from and he talks about being banned from here. It all makes sense now.

Funny part is he still has no clue why he was banned three times.
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pinkymadigan wrote:
Ah, Orlanth was a guy in here for a few days that just called everyone trolls here at BGG (Tormorent). I read further in the thread where the original quoted post came from and he talks about being banned from here. It all makes sense now.

Funny part is he still has no clue why he was banned three times.


He is still playing the innocent victim card. Priceless.

Just like all Gamezone backers will ignore who it was that started throwing out insults right here in this thread. Obviously the heroic internet tone police will be along to admonish the name calling here, right? Because we know there is no double standard. Right?
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Have to say again most crowd funded projects are delayed. 5 Months is alot but not uncommon...
 
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pinkymadigan wrote:
perdut wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
Copypasta from Orlanth (UK) on the Dakka forums. Hey, it's a slow day.

Quote:


Gamezone are honest to trade with (though I heard that already from other sources) but are exceptionally disorganised being artists more than businessmen. Catch them on a good day and the work gets done immediately, otherwise you might wait two months before they do anything. Siestas are involved somehow, or so it seems.

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.






I've never been a customer of Gamezone, but that's a bullshit generalization.


It's the first actual dose of anti-nationalism I've seen injected into the argument. There have been plenty of people calling foul on the issue before, but this is the first time it's been warranted.

While the quoted dakka dakka post may have made good points, it's too bad they included that kind of nonsense, which substantially weakens the impact of any points they had made.


I don't think he stated it with any malice in mind. Let's not turn this into a topic about political correctness.
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magmaxtic wrote:
pinkymadigan wrote:
perdut wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
Copypasta from Orlanth (UK) on the Dakka forums. Hey, it's a slow day.

Quote:


Gamezone are honest to trade with (though I heard that already from other sources) but are exceptionally disorganised being artists more than businessmen. Catch them on a good day and the work gets done immediately, otherwise you might wait two months before they do anything. Siestas are involved somehow, or so it seems.

This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.






I've never been a customer of Gamezone, but that's a bullshit generalization.


It's the first actual dose of anti-nationalism I've seen injected into the argument. There have been plenty of people calling foul on the issue before, but this is the first time it's been warranted.

While the quoted dakka dakka post may have made good points, it's too bad they included that kind of nonsense, which substantially weakens the impact of any points they had made.


I don't think he stated it with any malice in mind. Let's not turn this into a topic about political correctness.



The comment comes from a GZ supporter repeating what a GZ retailer told him about dealing with GZ. there is nothing stopping people from going to the Dakka forums to clarify what has been stated.
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magmaxtic wrote:

Quote:
This is a very Spanish way of doing business and one I can well believe of a Spanish small business.


I don't think he stated it with any malice in mind. Let's not turn this into a topic about political correctness.


Not really my intent to turn it into a PC discussion; but that's not exactly a mind free of bias that would bother writing that into a post. It was nice of him to report back from Salute (I actually looked up his post history there for some good info on Dungeon Saga), but there's just no reason for him to take shots at the Spanish community while doing so.
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RedShark92 wrote:

Right again. There are trolls on both sides of this discussion


No there isn't.
 
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sandman77 wrote:
Have to say again most crowd funded projects are delayed. 5 Months is alot but not uncommon...


Why are people talking like this game is 5 months late?
5 months in in 3 days time. Have people started getting shipping notices?
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
RedShark92 wrote:

Right again. There are trolls on both sides of this discussion


No there isn't.


We disagree, but you're focusing on the wrong part of my message. The vast majority of detractors are not, of course.
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pinkymadigan wrote:
Not really my intent to turn it into a PC discussion; but that's not exactly a mind free of bias that would bother writing that into a post. It was nice of him to report back from Salute (I actually looked up his post history there for some good info on Dungeon Saga), but there's just no reason for him to take shots at the Spanish community while doing so.


Having read his imaginative and innaccurate (read bullshit) version of what happened when he showed up here I would take anything that guy says with a large pinch of salt. You will note his indignant insistence that he was a model of good manners and rational behaviour and was merely the victim of ignorant bullies plus a mod conspiracy, yet ignores the fact he started out labelling people as scum and moved on to trolls and propounded at length on things he clearly had no idea about.

If he told me I needed oxygen to live I would still check with someone else.
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And in addition, given his pattern of behaviour, the fact that he chose to reiterate a tired British tabloid view of the Spanish is not surprising to me. And it gives Gamezone an out from what might be genuine criticism of how they work, now they can just go back to "See, this is a Spain thing."
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So to summarize the quoted section in the OP: they're feckless.

In my opinion, feckless people are the single biggest problem with crowd funding. Luckily, I have a fairly good ability to disinguish them and stay well away from their projects.
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