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Subject: Deck-Building Question rss

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Rodney Cockrell
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I'm trying my hand at deck-building and finding it challenging. After going through every card in all of the base/expansions, I have put together a 4th Ring deck that has all of the stuff I want in it. However, this deck is neither a bicycle deck nor does it favor any draws. So, should I try to make it a bicycle deck knowing that it will not produce decent shootout hands but also not be a cheatin' hand or stack up a few values or leave it as is and hope my stud/draw/actions are enough to make up for its deficiencies?
 
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Alan Castree
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I'm sure others will chime in shortly but I'd say to not do a Bicycle deck. I might be wrong but I don't think there's the card pool to make a decent one yet. Also, your opponents would have to make a bicycle deck since it is kind of a restriction (you won't really get the pulls you want for your hexes to go off).

The idea is to load your deck to benefit the pulls you want. Law Dogs usually try to pull low (A,2,3) while 4th Ring often try to pull high (K,Q,J) since they want their spells to work.

Look at the cards you want to use and their value, then pick from other cards of the same value that support the function of your deck.

Mind you, this is mainly for getting 4 of a kinds and full houses. Some people like to stack their decks for flushes or dead man hands.

Willingdone made a nice video to help people understand how to stack a deck. Video link here!

I'm no expert, though, so someone might have better advice.
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So it goes.
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In the beginning the easiest way to learn is to pick 3 values you want for your deck and then put 3-4 copies of cards for each of the 4 suits in all three of those values in your deck and fill in the rest with off value cards you want to use. Unless you're playing landslide I really don't see how you win shootouts without having the ability to shoot and pull consistent hands. Starting posse dudes are good choices for off value cards. Its especially important to try and keep the action cards (clubs) in your deck on value since those are the only cards that won't be put into play and therefore removed from your potentially pulls.
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Mike Romeo
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troybowers wrote:
In the beginning the easiest way to learn is to pick 3 values you want for your deck and then put 3-4 copies of cards for each of the 4 suits in all three of those values in your deck and fill in the rest with off value cards you want to use. Unless you're playing landslide I really don't see how you win shootouts without having the ability to shoot and pull consistent hands. Starting posse dudes are good choices for off value cards. Its especially important to try and keep the action cards (clubs) in your deck on value since those are the only cards that won't be put into play and therefore removed from your potentially pulls.



This!!! It's easy to do! Try it!
 
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Rodney Cockrell
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Thanks for the great answers. There are some smart people on this site! However, in the process of trying to build a 4th Ring deck, I'm basically stuck building the example deck. I looked at the cards I had originally chosen and focusing on high cards for hex pulls, I realized that would be 10-J-Q. In order to fill those, I pretty much gutted the base 4th Ring deck. I have 52 cards composed of 10-J-Q. However, I need to remove some for my starting dudes (4). That puts me at 48 10-J-Q. Can I continue to remove some of those to get some other cards I want into the deck? Is there a magic number I should have of each 10-J-Q that will still give me decent shootouts? I.E. 16 of each fills the deck (16x3+4 starting) but what if I had 13 of each and 9 other cards? See what I'm getting at?
 
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David Boeren
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You don't need 16x3.

Sort of two ways to go on this one...

You can build a deck that has better utility but worse shooting by choosing two key values. In this case, you probably want 15-16 of each to keep your shooting decent. Then the rest of the deck is flexible and can pack cards to help give shooting bonuses if you want. You can also develop a bit of a minor 3rd key value if that fits your concept.

Or, you can take 3 key values which tends to give better shooting. However, at 16x3 you have basically no flexibility in the deck so you wouldn't typically go that high in most cases. Exact numbers aren't that important, maybe one deck goes 14-12-10. Another one goes 16-9-9. 13-9-9 would be fine too, you're just trading off a little shooting consistency for a little more room to put in cards with useful effects. As long as the effects you're adding are worthwhile, it should be a relatively fair trade.

It's OK for your deck to not be super-shooty, you just want to have a realistic picture of where you're at on the spectrum so you can make good in-game decisions about what shootouts to participate in.
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Rodney Cockrell
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dboeren wrote:
You don't need 16x3.

Sort of two ways to go on this one...

You can build a deck that has better utility but worse shooting by choosing two key values. In this case, you probably want 15-16 of each to keep your shooting decent. Then the rest of the deck is flexible and can pack cards to help give shooting bonuses if you want. You can also develop a bit of a minor 3rd key value if that fits your concept.

Or, you can take 3 key values which tends to give better shooting. However, at 16x3 you have basically no flexibility in the deck so you wouldn't typically go that high in most cases. Exact numbers aren't that important, maybe one deck goes 14-12-10. Another one goes 16-9-9. 13-9-9 would be fine too, you're just trading off a little shooting consistency for a little more room to put in cards with useful effects. As long as the effects you're adding are worthwhile, it should be a relatively fair trade.

It's OK for your deck to not be super-shooty, you just want to have a realistic picture of where you're at on the spectrum so you can make good in-game decisions about what shootouts to participate in.


Thanks. I think I've been approaching this at the extremes and a good deck is probably somewhere in the middle.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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My question sorta touches on the deck-building issue, so I'll highjack a bit. I'm curious about hand rank management for lowball vs shootouts. Say your deck pulls Full House, 4 and/or 5 of a Kind with regularity for shootouts, does such a deck have a shot to regularly win lowball too? Seems like you'd be drawing 3 of a Kind quite a bit even with just a normal 5-card hand for lowball if your deck revolves around max or mostly 3 key values.
 
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Richard Dickson
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Dam the Man wrote:
My question sorta touches on the deck-building issue, so I'll highjack a bit. I'm curious about hand rank management for lowball vs shootouts. Say your deck pulls Full House, 4 and/or 5 of a Kind with regularity for shootouts, does such a deck have a shot to regularly win lowball too?


I speak from experience here: NOPE.

Seriously, my Fourth Ring deck practically never wins lowball, and I've actually tweaked the deck because of it. I added in Reserves and Extortion for some extra income, and structured my starting posse to leave me 4 or 6 ghost rock left over so I have a cushion until I can get my deeds out.
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B C Z
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The only way to guarantee winning lowball (and it's not even that much of a guarantee) is to play a bicycle deck, which will consistently draw "High Card".

That's one extreme.

Another extreme is having 5 starters and all clubs. You'll always draw a flush. Great for shooting, but you will not be winning lowball.

3x16 +4 is another extreme. Likely to shoot well with even a 1 draw. Again, won't be winning lowball.

There is middle ground, and the mitigation factor is the bullets your dudes have.
 
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Rodney Cockrell
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I built a 4th Ring deck that has 10-J-K: http://dtdb.co/en/decklist/952/super-bobo

As I posted on that site, the problem is generating any income. Suggestions on how to tweak the deck to improve my economy?
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Do you care about having bounties on your dudes? "This is a Holdup!" (Base #137) might be an easier option than Recruitment Drive and A Coach Comes to Town. It would not only get income for you, it would take it off the opponent. Not knowing your meta of course, if people aggressively oppose town square jobs or not. But as a J-value, it would fit right into the draw values of the deck.
 
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Rodney Cockrell
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Dam the Man wrote:
Do you care about having bounties on your dudes? "This is a Holdup!" (Base #137) might be an easier option than Recruitment Drive and A Coach Comes to Town. It would not only get income for you, it would take it off the opponent. Not knowing your meta of course, if people aggressively oppose town square jobs or not. But as a J-value, it would fit right into the draw values of the deck.


Great idea! I played against an MCC deck recently and this card would have come in handy because he didn't oppose any of my controls (and was sitting on a pile of GR most of the game). I think I will drop Richard Slavin and put "This is a Holdup!" in the deck. Slavin is too conditional to be of much use. Also, because I wanted to leave the other actions in place, I had to drop one of the Hex Slingin' cards because I had too many J's. I replaced that with St. Anthony's Chapel. Could help Bobo be more super at the expense of a bullet for Smiling Tom to be there (for example).
 
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Tex Hammack

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I am becoming a bit disillusioned with me and Doomtown. I just cannot make sense of the suggestions. I am trying to build a deck with mechanics to help the theme. But I cannot win shootouts. Basically, according to suggestions I am supposed to just throw values in my deck but what good are those values if they have no real mechanical benefits other than to win shootouts?

I admit I am very much a linear thinker. I am used to being able to dissect mathematically a deck building process. Like in a Deck you should have said many resources, said many units and then said many cards for support. I cannot lock this concept down with doomtown and it is killing me.

I have a deck I have been working on and Mechanically my resources flow nicely, I can get dudes in play with some item support. But when coming to pulling off jobs and shootouts it lacks severely. In order to start winning shootouts I have to take out the mechanics that make the deck flow and so it just become the other side of a jumbled mess "Coin"

I have tried and tried but I cannot get my mechanics and shootout hands to line up. Am I just this stupid? lol
 
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If you want a shooty deck, start by choosing three values (e.g. 3-5-7), fill these values with cards that you like, and use only those mechanics and synergies that are within the three chosen values + add about 4-6 off-value cards. Don't think like "this card is good in combination with that card and also this one", focus only on what's available in the pool of the three chosen values.

For a shooty deck you want some bullet-reducing actions, some cheatin' punishment, some ways to initiate shootouts, and some cheap goods. Dudes and deeds are mostly fillers at this point, but preferrably choose the ones that are cheap and effective. The values 3-5-7 are ideal for your first shooty deck, just add some Coachwhips or Bottom Dealin's.
 
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Ricard Lopez
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Dwnhmcntryboy wrote:
I am becoming a bit disillusioned with me and Doomtown. I just cannot make sense of the suggestions. I am trying to build a deck with mechanics to help the theme. But I cannot win shootouts. Basically, according to suggestions I am supposed to just throw values in my deck but what good are those values if they have no real mechanical benefits other than to win shootouts?

I admit I am very much a linear thinker. I am used to being able to dissect mathematically a deck building process. Like in a Deck you should have said many resources, said many units and then said many cards for support. I cannot lock this concept down with doomtown and it is killing me.

I have a deck I have been working on and Mechanically my resources flow nicely, I can get dudes in play with some item support. But when coming to pulling off jobs and shootouts it lacks severely. In order to start winning shootouts I have to take out the mechanics that make the deck flow and so it just become the other side of a jumbled mess "Coin"

I have tried and tried but I cannot get my mechanics and shootout hands to line up. Am I just this stupid? lol


Have you taken a look at dtdb.com? There are many decks with write ups from their authors that should help you understand how draw structure and utility can combine to create a great deck.
 
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