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Mage Knight Board Game: The Lost Legion Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Arcance Immunity rss

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Stefan blank
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I'm having trouble understanding what Arcane Immunity is. So I can't use Units like Shocktroops to reduce it's armor/attack?
 
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David desJardins
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steantera wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding what Arcane Immunity is. So I can't use Units like Shocktroops to reduce it's armor/attack?


Did you read the section of the Lost Legion rulebook where it's explained?
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Nicola Bocchetta
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You cannot reduce its armor, but you can use Shocktroops to reduce the attack value of the enemy.

This is clearly spelled out in the LL rulebook, p.6, under "Arcane Immunity".
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Wayne Schulatz
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DaviddesJ wrote:
steantera wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding what Arcane Immunity is. So I can't use Units like Shocktroops to reduce it's armor/attack?


Did you read the section of the Lost Legion rulebook where it's explained?


It appears that he did, but he's having trouble understanding it.
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Erich Schneider
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If an enemy has Arcane Immunity, no effect, whether from playing a card, using a Unit ability, or using a skill, can affect the enemy, with the exception of Attack and Block effects. Attack or Block effects still retain any of their Ranged, Siege, Ice, Fire, or Cold Fire attributes.

So for the specific example of Shocktroops, you could use their first ability to generate Ranged Attack 1 against the enemy (and enhance your other units' Attack values), but you couldn't use their second or third abilities to reduce the enemy's attack value.

Essentially, if a card, unit, or skill says something other than "Attack X" or "Block X" against an enemy, units with Arcane Immunity are immune to that part of the card, unit, or skill. Look for that phrase, "Attack X" or "Block X".


Edit: I misspoke - other posters in the thread are correct.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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erich_schneider wrote:
If an enemy has Arcane Immunity, no effect, whether from playing a card, using a Unit ability, or using a skill, can affect the enemy, with the exception of Attack and Block effects. Attack or Block effects still retain any of their Ranged, Siege, Ice, Fire, or Cold Fire attributes.

So for the specific example of Shocktroops, you could use their first ability to generate Ranged Attack 1 against the enemy (and enhance your other units' Attack values), but you couldn't use their second or third abilities to reduce the enemy's attack value.


This is not correct. See the bolded text below:

Lost Legion rules, Arcane Immunity wrote:
Enemies with Arcane Immunity are not affected by any non-Attack/non-Block effects, from no matter what
source they are from.
i.e. ignore any effects that directly destroy an enemy, prevent it from attacking, reduce its Armor etc. Attacks and Blocks of any elements work normally, though. If an effect has both Attack/Block part and another part, only the Attack/Block part applies. While the enemy itself is protected, its attacks are not. If an effect reduces an enemy attack or affects it in any other way, it can also be used against the attack of an enemy with Arcane immunity.
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Stefan blank
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Thanks alot guys.

I haven't noticed this before but if a enemy has fire/ice resistance I can't use blue/red mana. Does that mean in the attack phase, or all togheter? Let's say I block his attack with a blue mana Cold Toughness, that dosen't work?
 
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Joseph Cochran
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steantera wrote:
I haven't noticed this before but if a enemy has fire/ice resistance I can't use blue/red mana. Does that mean in the attack phase, or all togheter? Let's say I block his attack with a blue mana Cold Toughness, that dosen't work?


That's not correct. You are allowed to use red or blue mana.

The way it works is this. Assume an enemy has fire resistance:

1) If you're generating fire attack it is inefficient against that enemy.
2) If you use red mana to power a card, any effect that is not Attack or Block cannot be used.

So you CAN use the Attack and Block from any card against any enemy, no matter what mana powers that card.

In your example, you can use Cold Toughness for the Block 5. You just (by the card text) will not be able to get extra block if you use it against an enemy with Arcane Immunity.
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David desJardins
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Wayne Schulatz wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
steantera wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding what Arcane Immunity is. So I can't use Units like Shocktroops to reduce it's armor/attack?


Did you read the section of the Lost Legion rulebook where it's explained?


It appears that he did, but he's having trouble understanding it.


What makes you think so?

The short rules section about Arcane Immunity says

If an effect reduces an enemy attack or affects it in any other way, it can also be used against the attack of an enemy with Arcane Immunity.

Which seems to very directly answer his question. He's asking if Shocktroops can be used to reduce the attack of an enemy with Arcane Immunity and the rulebook says: effects that reduce an enemy attack can be used against enemies with Arcane Immunity.

To me the most likely explanation for his question is that he didn't read this section of the rulebook. But I could be wrong, maybe he read it and didn't understand it, or has some other question about it. That's why I asked.
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Grant Stewart
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steantera wrote:
Thanks alot guys.

I haven't noticed this before but if a enemy has fire/ice resistance I can't use blue/red mana. Does that mean in the attack phase, or all togheter? Let's say I block his attack with a blue mana Cold Toughness, that dosen't work?

1: Fire/ice Resistance does not mean you cannot use red/blue mana, it means effects that are powered by that mana may not work completely against the unit in question. CURRENTLY you may treat them much the same as arcane immunity but only for something red for fire resistance, blue for cold resistance.
Preventing attack completely (freezers elite unit for example), reducing armor (also on freezers elite unit, but other effects as well), immediately destroying a token regardless of armor (exploding shield version of flame shield) are all effects that are prevented by arcane or corresponding resistance.

There is a fairly simple check for if an effect works against spell immune or corresponding resistance: "Does it give me ATTACK +X or BLOCK +X?"
Regardless of element, "ATTACK +X" or "BLOCK +X" works unless the card mentions a reason otherwise.


Per your particular question:
Cold Toughness, powered with blue mana, grants at least ice block 5. The additional effect improves the block granted based on the icons on the token. As it is STILL only generating block, a powered Cold Toughness grants the block plus bonus block against most tokens, including those with ice resistance.
Against an Ice Dragon token, it is worth Ice Block 5+4 for abilities on token.
Cold Toughness specifically does not get boosted against a token with arcane immunity.

Edited for technicality.
 
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Magnesi
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Kaelii wrote:
Treat much the same as arcane immunity but only for something red for fire resistance, blue for cold resistance.
Just a quick (maybe pedantic) clarification: the red effects that don't work with fire resistant enemies and arcane enemies are not the same (*). For instance, if there were a red effect that reduces enemy attacks, it would work for arcane enemies but it wouldn't with fire resistance ones.

(*) Well, in practical, AFAIK, there are the same because no red/blue effect that affects an enemy attack exists; but that may change in the future expansions.
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Grant Stewart
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syzygia wrote:
Kaelii wrote:
Treat much the same as arcane immunity but only for something red for fire resistance, blue for cold resistance.
Just a quick (maybe pedantic) clarification: the red effects that don't work with fire resistant enemies and arcane enemies are not the same (*). For instance, if there were a red effect that reduces enemy attacks, it would work for arcane enemies but it wouldn't with fire resistance ones.

(*) Well, in practical, AFAIK, there are the same because no red/blue effect that affects an enemy attack exists; but that may change in the future expansions.

Fair point. Will add CURRENTLY.
 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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Can an admin please move this to the Lost Legion forum? Thank you.
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Izzy Marsh
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Lost Legion rules, Arcane Immunity wrote:
Enemies with Arcane Immunity are not affected by any non-Attack/non-Block effects, from no matter what
source they are from.


I'm not surprised this rule has been queried, it seems pretty vague to me too.

There is a magic spell in the game I like to use (Underground Attack) that allows you to move underground. If it is used at night with black mana you can 'pop up' out the ground inside an enemy fortress and the defenders lose their site fortification bonuses. Does Arcane Immunity disallow that loss (y'know, cos it's a magic spell)?
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Grant Stewart
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Old Deep One wrote:

Lost Legion rules, Arcane Immunity wrote:
Enemies with Arcane Immunity are not affected by any non-Attack/non-Block effects, from no matter what
source they are from.


I'm not surprised this rule has been queried, it seems pretty vague to me too.

There is a magic spell in the game I like to use (Underground Attack) that allows you to move underground. If it is used at night with black mana you can 'pop up' out the ground inside an enemy fortress and the defenders lose their site fortification bonuses. Does Arcane Immunity disallow that loss (y'know, cos it's a magic spell)?

My approach would be that Underground Attack is not affecting the token, it affects the site rules.
Normally a fortified site grants additional fortification to any tokens fought at that site. Underground Attack specifically tells you to ignore site fortifications in the combat -- much like Demolish's interaction with Fire resistance. Both of these effects distinctly different from Expose/Mass Expose and the white/green mana effects of the Sorcerers Elite Unit which causes a token to lose all fortifications or resistances (these WOULD be prevented by arcane immunity).
See: Mage Knight FAQ, Section 3: Cards
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Joseph Cochran
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Old Deep One wrote:
There is a magic spell in the game I like to use (Underground Attack) that allows you to move underground. If it is used at night with black mana you can 'pop up' out the ground inside an enemy fortress and the defenders lose their site fortification bonuses. Does Arcane Immunity disallow that loss (y'know, cos it's a magic spell)?


Both Underground Attack and Demolish use the phrare "ignore site fortifications." The defenders aren't the target of the spell, the site is and therefore there's just no fortification bonus for the defenders to use. Just as you can target the attack of an enemy with AI, you can target a site that one is sitting on.

Arcane Immunity isn't "impervious to all game effects," fortunately.
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Makoto Nanaya
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If an enemy has physical resistance and arcane immunity, would the stronger effect of the Sword of Justice artifact (enemies lose physical resistance this turn) remove its physical resistance?

If they have Arcane Immunity, then I think the stronger effect does not remove their physical resistance, because as it is written on p. 6 of the LL rulebook it says, "If an effect has both attack/block part and another part, only the attack/block part applies."

Is this correct?

Thank you.
 
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David desJardins
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Makoto_Nanaya wrote:
If an enemy has physical resistance and arcane immunity, would the stronger effect of the Sword of Justice artifact (enemies lose physical resistance this turn) remove its physical resistance?


No.
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