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Subject: Discrepancy: Page 1 Combat Phase BLITZ v. 5.62 Blitz-Exploit rss

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John Griffey
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Page one's description of Blitz-Exploit:

Quote:
If the enemy is defeated any /all victorious units may move to any adjacent areas, subject to border and stacking limits. One new battle can be started, or one pending battle can be reinforced.


Rule 5.62 Blitz-Exploit seems to restrict the Blitz-Exploit movement to one ("an") adjacent area, rather than allowing movement to any adjacent areas as on page one:

Quote:
5.62 Blitz-Exploit: a victorious leader in a battle may immediately Blitz-Exploit. Reduce the leader 1-step and move any/all victorious units including the leader. Blitz movement is made to an adjacent area, subject to Border and Stacking limits; card effects cannot be used for Blitz-Exploits. Blitzing units can start one new battle, or reinforce one pending battle . . .


Limiting the victorious units in Blitz Exploit to movement to one adjacent area is more restrictive than what is permitted to victorious leaderless units in Rule 5.8 Army Regroups. That cannot be 5.62's intention.

Another ambiguity: must the leader accompany Blitz-Exploiting units which start a new battle or which reinforce a pending battle?
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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It's not an ambiguity, you can regroup to any number of adjacent vacant or friendly areas, AND you can blitz to attack a single area. They are not mutually exclusive.
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Rick Westerman
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Not more restrictive. Think of it as differently restrictive.

Blitz-Exploit: One area under any control; especially under enemy control.

Regroup: Multiple areas either friendly or neutral.


Scott is correct in that you can do both at the same time and perhaps that was the point of your question.


The leader does not have to accompany the Blitz-Exploit.

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keith hatch

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I believe that regroup is limited to areas that are either friendly or vacant(not neutral), as per 5.8. You can regroup into vacant enemy areas, extending your conquest, but you cannot invade a hitherto neutral country.
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John Griffey
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I agree with you all about the designers' intentions.

Rule 5.62 could be re-written for clarity:

Quote:
Immediately after a victorious battle, a victorious leader may be reduced 1-step to add Blitz-Exploit movement to the Rule 5.8 Army Regroups capabilities of his victorious units: Any or all of the victorious units, in company with their step-reduced leader or not, may Blitz-Exploit to one adjacent enemy occupied area, obeying all border and stacking limits, to begin a new battle or to reinforce a pending battle. Either type of battle must be resolved immediately. Reinforcements for a pending battle arrive one round late normally. Card effects cannot be used for Blitz-Exploits.


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Michael Dworkin
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AS to Keith's point about not attacking a neutral country with a blitz move, I agree that one cannot do that with a regroup. I originally thought that one col dnot attack a neutral nation with a blitz move either, ...but I noticed that one line of the official FAQ explicitly said that a Declaration of War on a neutral COULD be done via a blitz attack. Im afraid I don't have the situation/reference at hand, but it was on left side of page, one third of the way down (how's that for eidactic memory of someone trained on paper for decades before monitor/screen text).
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Rick Westerman
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Sorry for being wrong about regroup into neutral areas. It is indeed into enemy vacant or friendly areas.

MHDworkin wrote:
... but it was on left side of page, one third of the way down (how's that for didactic memory of someone trained on paper for decades before monitor/screen text).


Actually it is at the very top of the first page, left side.


Q:  How  do  you  make  a  Declaration  of  War  (DoW)?

A:  Moving  into  a  neutral  major  or  minor  power’s
controlled  area  or  attacking  their  units  is  a  DoW.  This
can  occur  in  the  movement  or  blitz  phases.
 
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Michael Dworkin
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"Didactic' should have been 'eidactic" Went back and changed it.
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Eidetic.
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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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There is another unclarity regarding the blitz-exploit: can units move theirunit allowance of 2 or do they have to enter the adjacent area(s) directly?

I play now as follows: during blitz-exploit units receive an extra movement allowance of 1. Units may enter adjacent areas (plural), but can only start 1 (one) new battle.

It would be good if Ron could clarify though
 
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Rick Westerman
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mtraadsveld1 wrote:
There is another unclarity regarding the blitz-exploit: can units move their unit allowance of 2 or do they have to enter the adjacent area(s) directly?

I play now as follows: during blitz-exploit units receive an extra movement allowance of 1. Units may enter adjacent areas (plural), but can only start 1 (one) new battle.

It would be good if Ron could clarify though


Ron could clarify but as per the rules you are playing incorrectly. "Blitz movement is made to an adjacent area, subject to Border and Stacking limits". No plural in that and hard to interpret otherwise. From the above it is possible to interpret that the adjacent area can be entered from multiple paths and thus movement points are important however in other threads it has been clarified that only one entry path can be taken.
 
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Marten Tjaart Raadsveld
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If following the text from page 1 you can enter multiple areas. Like AnimalMother pointed out there is an inconsistency in the different bits of text, which started this discussion :-)
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Technically blitzing units enter only one (battle) area. Any units entering other areas are just regrouping.
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Rick Westerman
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mtraadsveld1 wrote:
If following the text from page 1 you can enter multiple areas. Like AnimalMother pointed out there is an inconsistency in the different bits of text, which started this discussion :-)


Page 1 is a general overview. It includes all forms of post-battle movement including blitz-exploit as well as regroup. I don't think that you can or should extrapolate from the general discussion to the specific rules.

Scott said this in a slightly different fashion.

 
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Michael Dworkin
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There is an ambiguity here, and it has significant gaming importance.

The ambiguity is raised by the rule text stating that "a Blitz movement is made to an adjacent area." The term 'movements is made to' is ambiguous about whether it means moving 'directly to' or 'indirectly to'.

In terms of the discussion above, I think the question is NOT whether a blitzing unit can move across one border DIRECTLY TO an an adjacent enemy occupied area....clearly it can.

The question is whether a blitzing unit can more INDIRECTLY TO an adjacent occupied area; i.e., can an army with a movement speed of 2, use one movement point to go to an adjacent empty area and a second movement point to go to a second area that is also adjacent to the start point of the blitz.

The question has significant gaming importance because of its implications for border-limits on how many units can get into the blitz's target area. That difference in how much weight attackers can put on a defender's second-line may often make a difference to whether France 40 or Fussia 41 or France 44 or Berlin 45 can move as swiftly as in history.

I note that one reading can focus on the "to AN adjacent area" as limiting movement to one are, but I think that it can also be read to say 'directly or indirectly to an adjacent area". In other words, moving 'through' an adjacent area is not the same as moving "to" that area. One can, as a matter of English usage, move to "an area" with one unit directly and move to the same area with a second unit indirectly, and accurately summarize it as two, simultaneous, ways in which "Blitz movement is made to an adjacent area."

With that said, the choice between the two may turn on a game-design goal of wanting to make blitz's more or less powerful and, thus, Barbarossa and France 40 and France 44 more or less swift moving.

A different, and recurring question is wehter the blitzing unit(s) must be accompanied by the blitzing general. I see ante above saying that it has been answered (in the negative), but can't remember seeing that before. Hopefully, it will be clarified in next rule book.
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Ron Draker
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I have asked Columbia Games for an official ruling and will let you know as soon as I hear back. I have played it as basically one movement point allowing a direct move to an adjacent area.

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Rick Westerman
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MHDworkin wrote:
less swift moving.

A different, and recurring question is wehter the blitzing unit(s) must be accompanied by the blitzing general. I see ante above saying that it has been answered (in the negative), but can't remember seeing that before. Hopefully, it will be clarified in next rule book.


The rules say:

5.62 Blitz-Exploit: a victorious leader in
a battle may immediately Blitz Exploit.
Reduce the leader 1-step and move
any/all victorious units including the
leader.

I read it that 'any/all' refers to the leader and to the victorious units. However I can see that some people might parse that sentence otherwise.

 
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Ron Draker
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The leader does not have to accompany the move.
 
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