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Bimmy Jim
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In many countries the senate is full of 1%ers, and career politicians.

Do you think these senates would benefit if say - 25% of senate members had to be working class citizens?

Do the interests of the most well-off individuals actually coincide with the general population?

I'm just curious for opinions.
 
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jeremy cobert
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BimmyJim wrote:
In many countries the senate is full of 1%ers, and career politicians.

Do you think these senates would benefit if say - 25% of senate members had to be working class citizens?

Do the interests of the most well-off individuals actually coincide with the general population?

I'm just curious for opinions.


Dear god no, I work with plenty of working class people.

The easiest way to fix politics it to force all public servants to wear body cams like we are starting to do with the police.
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Steve Rogers
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A lottery system of selected govt service would make for amusing congressional debates on c-span, and my football games won't be choked by political ads every 2 years.

Sadly I don't think most people want to serve, even if it were affordable to run for office.
 
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Kelsey Rinella
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Yes.
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Bimmy Jim
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epilgrim wrote:
A lottery system of selected govt service would make for amusing congressional debates on c-span, and my football games won't be choked by political ads every 2 years.

Sadly I don't think most people want to serve, even if it were affordable to run for office.


Not so much a lottery system..

I was thinking more along the lines of this example:

A miner has been deep in the mines for a long time, ended up being promoted and acted as a manager/executive for years, and knows his industry very well.

Unfortunately, he's not the "old white educated man" that has been polished to appeal to the public (which current senators are supposed to be), and other than his hard work and dedication, he has no other qualifications that would ever result in him getting appointed as a senator.

Why wouldn't that hypothetical man make a good senator? - because he doesn't have yale on his resume? Because his father wasn't a politician?
 
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jeremy cobert
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BimmyJim wrote:
[A miner has been deep in the mines for a long time, ended up being promoted and acted as a manager/executive for years, and knows his industry very well.


Sort of like a guy who worked every job in the factory to learn the in-n-out and then rose to become the CEO. Sort of like Lee Iacocca did.

The problem there is that once you become elevated and move up, you become "the man".



BimmyJim wrote:
Why wouldn't that hypothetical man make a good senator? - because he doesn't have yale on his resume? Because his father wasn't a politician?


Dear god, no way in hell would I want a random idiot in charge !!!! I don't even let some of my relatives make decisions on which foods to bring to our summer bbq's let alone let them make my financial decisions.

This discussion feels like a high school civics workshop theory.
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Ron
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BimmyJim wrote:
In many countries the senate is full of 1%ers, and career politicians.

Do you think these senates would benefit if say - 25% of senate members had to be working class citizens?

Do the interests of the most well-off individuals actually coincide with the general population?

I'm just curious for opinions.

I remember a friend arguing once for a two-pronged approach to changing Congress.

Step one would entail returning the selection of the Senate back to the individual states. That would allow each state to have more direct access to the inner workings, as opposed to where it is now where a US Senator tends to consider themselves as a different class altogether as compared to the state government folks.

Step two would require a cycling of election campaigns and drafts. I can't remember the specifics and I know that he was talking about some then-recently released study from Europe, but if 1/3-2/3 of the representatives were chosen by draft from all of their constituents (ensuring that the random selection was both known ahead of time and cycled to cover the entire country, and not just hitting the same reps over and over again), that would remove a lot of the waste and corruption that goes into the current government process. People would use their time in government to lead and not to campaign. Certainly there would be lost time and efficiency, but it would probably be more than rectified by gaining all the time that congresscritters normally use to keep their own jobs.

My only real feedback at the time was diversifying the political parties. Right now, US elections are basically like playing Risk with two players - boooring and pretty straight-forward. Having multiple parties (although not as many as some countries) would allow more people to feel as though they are represented accurately and it would require more compromise. Something that government is sadly lacking at the moment.

Obviously none of this will never happen as the current 'ruling class' has no desire whatsoever to upset the status quo, but it is an interesting experiment to see how to take the existing structure and tweak it just enough to make it both respected and successful again.
 
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J
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Working class (or whatever) citizens with a 115+ IQ.
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Bojan Ramadanovic
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It is a horrible idea because any attempt to enforce it would create infinite number of problems.

First of all - how do we define "working class" ?
Is it a family income category or assets category or is it literally a list of occupations (so well paid auto-worker is "working class" but struggling computer programmer or McDonalds manager or cornerstore owner is not).

Furthermore, do we asses the "current" status of our prospective senators or status throughout their lives, or some sort of cumulative status (i.e. must have been "working class" for 3 years in the past 10 sort of thing)

Once we have "working class" senators - do we proceed with quotes for "creative class", "academic class", "entrepreneurial class" etc...?
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Walker
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Working class (or whatever) citizens with a 115+ IQ.


Sounds like the real rulers of our society would be whoever wrote IQ tests. But even if that could be avoided, I'm not sure I'd favor this.
 
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twomillionbucks wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
Working class (or whatever) citizens with a 115+ IQ.


Sounds like the real rulers of our society would be whoever wrote IQ tests. But even if that could be avoided, I'm not sure I'd favor this.

I was joking...sort of.
 
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Jorge Montero
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I do not think that rules like that do anything, but being a senator has so much to do with being related to another senator, it's pretty ridiculous.

Being the son of an NBA player predicts becoming an NBA player less than being the son of a senator predicts becoming a senator. And with the NBA, we know there's a huge genetic factor in play.
 
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Kelsey Rinella
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For clarity: I believe the Senate would do a better job of representing the people if it were more economically diverse, other things being equal. If this required drafting folks at random, it would probably do more harm than good.
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David desJardins
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BimmyJim wrote:
Unfortunately, he's not the "old white educated man" that has been polished to appeal to the public (which current senators are supposed to be)


I think this is just not true. It's an advantage, not a disadvantage, in running for federal office if you aren't an old white male lawyer. The party committees and activist groups are always looking for candidates like that.

What is true, though, is that if you have never run for office before then the chances that you are going to do well in a Senate campaign are pretty low. Campaigning is actually a skill, most people are not good at it. So the people who run for the Senate tend to have run successfully for other offices before.
 
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Bimmy Jim
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DaviddesJ wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
Unfortunately, he's not the "old white educated man" that has been polished to appeal to the public (which current senators are supposed to be)


I think this is just not true. It's an advantage, not a disadvantage, in running for federal office if you aren't an old white male lawyer. The party committees and activist groups are always looking for candidates like that.

What is true, though, is that if you have never run for office before then the chances that you are going to do well in a Senate campaign are pretty low. Campaigning is actually a skill, most people are not good at it. So the people who run for the Senate tend to have run successfully for other offices before.


I'm not talking about elected politicians.. I'm talking about appointed ones
 
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David desJardins
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BimmyJim wrote:
I'm not talking about elected politicians.. I'm talking about appointed ones


I didn't know the Canadian Senate was appointed. You might have mentioned that in your OP. Obviously that would be the first thing to fix. But even an elected Senate is still going to have a bias toward politicians, for the reasons I mentioned.
 
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Agent J
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twomillionbucks wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
Working class (or whatever) citizens with a 115+ IQ.


Sounds like the real rulers of our society would be whoever wrote IQ tests. But even if that could be avoided, I'm not sure I'd favor this.


Well, whoever graded them.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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Jythier wrote:
twomillionbucks wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
Working class (or whatever) citizens with a 115+ IQ.


Sounds like the real rulers of our society would be whoever wrote IQ tests. But even if that could be avoided, I'm not sure I'd favor this.


Well, whoever graded them.


This theory was actually explored in a dystopian graphic novel game called Hate Plus, in which the rulers made it a 'meritocracy' and then graded people on things that only they knew in order to take control of the government, at which time they turned it from a democracy into an empire, with requisite emperor.
 
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David desJardins
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And if we have computer-graded tests then we're just giving all of the power to the computers.
 
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Scott Russell
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DaviddesJ wrote:
And if we have computer-graded tests then we're just giving all of the power to the computers.


Sounds ok as long as they aren't driving.
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CapNClassic wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
In many countries the senate is full of 1%ers, and career politicians.
Do you think these senates would benefit if say - 25% of senate members had to be working class citizens?
Do the interests of the most well-off individuals actually coincide with the general population?
I'm just curious for opinions.
Dear god no, I work with plenty of working class people.

The easiest way to fix politics it to force all public servants to wear body cams like we are starting to do with the police.
This sounds like an excellent solution. We have too many closed doors meetings and opaque government.

If all public officials had to go on record, all of the time, we would have a lot lsss citizen abuse.

working class people are about as stupid as many politicians. wouldn't have much effect. The interests of the 1% are themselves, much the same as the 99%. So they are the same or completely different depending upon your view.


Holy shit, you actually said something I agree with. FIX IT FIX IT
 
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Steve K
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I'll take the first 50 names our of the Manhattan phone book anytime.
 
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