Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Dominion: Adventures» Forums » Variants

Subject: Chart idea I had rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
First of all let me say this is untested and far from the official way to do things. Secondly, I think there are three things that can be included in the game either at the option of the players or by random rules within a specific expansion. Those things aren't triggered by a specific card being in the Kingdom set but rather by chance depending on the number of cards in that Kingdom set from a particular expansion. The three things are: 1. the Colony/Platinum combination; 2. Shelters; 3. Events.

The follow chart proposes to decide which of those things are in a game totally by chance without regard to whether or how many cards from an expansion are going to be used. There is, for example only a 40 percent chance that 1 or 2 Events will be used.

Anyway, if you're still reading this, you have my thanks. Here we go. This uses a 20-sided die but you could use a different die or dice to skew the probabilities to your liking.

1 - Colony/Platinum
2 - Shelters
3 - 1 Event
4 - 2 Events
5 - Colony/Platinum & Shelters
6 - Colony/Platinum & 1 Event
7 - Colony/Platinum & 2 Events
8 - Shelters & 1 Event
9 - Shelters & 2 Events
10 - Colony/Platinum, Shelters & 1 Event
11 - Colony/Platinum, Shelters & 2 Events
12-20 - None of the above

You could, as I stated, give any of the above portions more weight by assigning another number to it. I would welcome feedback and would not be offended if you reply merely to say you hate it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
I like the idea, but the current chart has a "feast or famine" effect where you'll usually either use none of the extra modules or lots of them, with little room in between. As written you're more likely to use Colonies and Shelters and Events than you are to just use Colonies, for example. I don't see a way around that without making some options impossible, increasing the number of faces on the die rolled, or adding extra die rolls.

Adding extra die rolls seems like the best option. Assign colonies/shelters by one die roll and events by a separate die roll.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M.
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mb
salty53 wrote:
Adding extra die rolls seems like the best option. Assign colonies/shelters by one die roll and events by a separate die roll.


I'm guessing the idea was to consolidate all these options into one action (a die roll). Otherwise you may as well just flip one coin for colonies/platinums, flip it again for shelters. Flip it once more for Events (Y/N), if Y then flip again for 1 or 2.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
I like the idea, but the current chart has a "feast or famine" effect where you'll usually either use none of the extra modules or lots of them, with little room in between. As written you're more likely to use Colonies and Shelters and Events than you are to just use Colonies, for example. I don't see a way around that without making some options impossible, increasing the number of faces on the die rolled, or adding extra die rolls.

Adding extra die rolls seems like the best option. Assign colonies/shelters by one die roll and events by a separate die roll.


I don't understand some of these comments to be honest. To the best of my knowledge, going by the official rules you either use Platinum and Colony both or you use neither. I tried to stay true to that. I just tried to cover all possibilities of these three things alone or in multiples as well as the chance you'd use neither.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M.
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mb
I think we're all in agreement that Colonies and Platinums are always used together, "Colonies" just being used as shorthand to mean both
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1002am wrote:
I think we're all in agreement that Colonies and Platinums are always used together, "Colonies" just being used as shorthand to mean both


Then could you explain the feast or famine comment. 50 percent of the rolls produce using either all of those things or none, but the other 50 percent has some of them, which is neither feast nor famine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M.
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mb
I think he just meant that there's only one possible roll out of 20 that gives you Colonies and Platinums alone vs. 6 that give Colonies, Platinums, Events and 9 that give you none of the above. Therefore having just one added module is underrepresented.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, but there are 3 that give you one module alone. Plus it is possible to just give each of those 3 outcomes 1 additional roll apiece to make it 30 percent of the time just one module, 40 percent of the time no modules and just 30 percent of the time with multiple modules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M.
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mb
I want to say that I like the idea. But if you're rolling dice to determine which modules to use then you probably don't want a nearly 50/50 chance of rolling no modules, (or for that matter any chance at all of rolling no modules). I say if you're rolling, you want at least one module. In that case, sticking to one twenty-sided die, I would eliminate the no modules possibility (just decide not to roll) and then assign two numbers to everything except "one event" and "two event" which get one number each.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If someone wants to do that, feel free but I have no desire to do that. This tries to accomplish roughly what the official rules are in regards to frequency but without using that part of the rules that make using these cards dependent on the existence of cards from a particular expansion. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play with one or more of these 3 things in every single game. Yet I can imagine that some people (like me) would like for that decision to be made randomly in a version of the same way that decision is made officially.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Nerman
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would use a d% to give a wider range of numbers, or make a deck of exactly the right number of cards to determine the odds I wanted.

Personally, with rules-as-written, Colonies/Platinum doesn't show up nearly often enough. I want them in 50% of the games I play, or more.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
enfynet enfynet
msg tools
mb
Suggestions as written:

Colonies if First card is from Prosperity. (25/115 at release ~ 22%)
Shelters if Last card is from Dark Ages. (35/190 at release ~ 18%)
Events (0, 1, 2) mixed with randomizers. (20/256 at release ~ 44%, 35%, 20%)

But, these are only suggestions. You are more than welcome to use your own methods.

Quite simply, you could say 20% of games use Colonies, 20% of games use Shelters, 20% of games use 2 Events (35% use 1 Event, 45% use 0 Events) or you could alter those percentages however you wish.

In reality, using dice (or coin flips) you would want a separate choice method for each option.

With 3 different colored d6 you could say:
Red. Roll 1 = Use Colonies (17%)
Blue. Roll 6 = Use Shelters (17%)
White. Roll 1 = Use 2 Events (17%); Roll 2,3 = Use 1 Event (33%)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
enfynet wrote:
Suggestions as written:

Colonies if First card is from Prosperity. (25/115 at release ~ 22%)
Shelters if Last card is from Dark Ages. (35/190 at release ~ 18%)
Events (0, 1, 2) mixed with randomizers. (20/256 at release ~ 44%, 35%, 20%)

But, these are only suggestions. You are more than welcome to use your own methods.

Quite simply, you could say 20% of games use Colonies, 20% of games use Shelters, 20% of games use 2 Events (35% use 1 Event, 45% use 0 Events) or you could alter those percentages however you wish.

In reality, using dice (or coin flips) you would want a separate choice method for each option.

With 3 different colored d6 you could say:
Red. Roll 1 = Use Colonies (17%)
Blue. Roll 6 = Use Shelters (17%)
White. Roll 1 = Use 2 Events (17%); Roll 2,3 = Use 1 Event (33%)


I like much of that. But I am a bit more interested in what the percentage for Colony and for Shelters are post-Adventures than what they are now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
enfynet enfynet
msg tools
mb
Well the percentages for Colonies drops in half, and the percentages for Shelters drops by about 20%.

As written, you d20 plan says this:

Colonies: 30% (too high)
Shelters: 30% (too high)
1 Event: 20% (too low)
2 Events: 20% (accurate)

If you like these percentages, then go ahead. But they don't really match up with the suggestions in the rules.

Also, I based my numbers on the time of release because that was accurate for the time the suggestion was published.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
enfynet wrote:
Well the percentages for Colonies drops in half, and the percentages for Shelters drops by about 20%.

As written, you d20 plan says this:

Colonies: 30% (too high)
Shelters: 30% (too high)
1 Event: 20% (too low)
2 Events: 20% (accurate)

If you like these percentages, then go ahead. But they don't really match up with the suggestions in the rules.

Also, I based my numbers on the time of release because that was accurate for the time the suggestion was published.


Yes but they are no longer accurate due to more kingdom cards. I am playing today. So Colony should be 11 percent and Shelters are about 13 percent? Then maybe use three D8s. The first one is tied to Colony and it needs to be a 1. The second to Shelters and it needs to be a 1. The third is tied to Events and it is 1-3 = 1 Event, 4-5 = 2 Events and 6-8 = No Events. Sound better.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Hawks
United States
Apple Valley
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rickert wrote:
So Colony should be 11 percent and Shelters are about 13 percent?

I get 11% for Colony (25 kingdom cards out of 236) and 15% for Shelters (35 out of 236).

I was actually trying to do the math for all Colony/Shelter/Event combos, but then my head started to hurt, so I wrote a quick program to brute force it. Out of 30,000 setups, using the suggested rules (first card Propserity? last card Dark Ages? no more than 2 Events) I get the following percentages:

Vanilla - 40.3%
Colony - 4.7%
Shelters - 6.8%
1 Event - 25.5%
2 Events - 10.4%
Colony/1 Event - 3.0%
Colony/2 Events - 1.3%
Shelters/1 Event - 4.6%
Shelters/2 Events - 1.8%
Colony/Shelters - 0.8%
Colony/Shelters/1 Event - 0.5%
Colony/Shelters/2 Events - 0.2%

Individual results:
Colony - 10.5%
Shelters - 14.8%
Colony/Shelters - 1.6%
0 Events - 52.6%
1 Event - 33.6%
2 Events - 13.8%

I also ran it for my own preferred selection method, which states that if either of the first two kingdom cards are from Prosperity, use Colonies, and if either are Dark Ages, use Shelters. It helps mitigate expansion bloat, and gives the following results:

Vanilla - 30.0%
Colony - 8.3%
Shelters - 12.1%
1 Event - 19.0%
2 Events - 7.7%
Colony/1 Event - 5.4%
Colony/2 Events - 2.3%
Shelters/1 Event - 7.9%
Shelters/2 Events - 3.1%
Colony/Shelters - 2.2%
Colony/Shelters/1 Event - 1.4%
Colony/Shelters/2 Events - 0.5%

Individual results:
Colony - 20.1%
Shelters - 27.2%
Colony/Shelters - 4.1%
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Nerman
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rickert wrote:

I was actually trying to do the math for all Colony/Shelter/Event combos, but then my head started to hurt, so I wrote a quick program to brute force it. Out of 30,000 setups, using the suggested rules (first card Propserity? last card Dark Ages? no more than 2 Events) I get the following percentages:

You the man. I also took a couple stabs at it but made some mistakes and got fed up. Thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Hawks
United States
Apple Valley
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Salt-Man Z wrote:
Individual results:
Colony - 10.5%
Shelters - 14.8%
Colony/Shelters - 1.6%
0 Events - 52.6%
1 Event - 33.6%
2 Events - 13.8%

I meant to add this, but apparently forgot, but if you want to approximate this with dice, use a d10 for Colony/Platinum, a d8 for Shelters, and a d8 for Events:

Colony/Platinum on a 1 (d10)
Shelters on a 1 (d8)
No Events on 1-4, 1 Event on 5-7, 2 Events on an 8 (d8)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Salt-Man Z wrote:
Salt-Man Z wrote:
Individual results:
Colony - 10.5%
Shelters - 14.8%
Colony/Shelters - 1.6%
0 Events - 52.6%
1 Event - 33.6%
2 Events - 13.8%

I meant to add this, but apparently forgot, but if you want to approximate this with dice, use a d10 for Colony/Platinum, a d8 for Shelters, and a d8 for Events:

Colony/Platinum on a 1 (d10)
Shelters on a 1 (d8)
No Events on 1-4, 1 Event on 5-7, 2 Events on an 8 (d8)


This looks very good. Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.