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Dungeon Dice: Guilds» Forums » General

Subject: Balance of Equipment with Class Dice rss

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Tylor Lilley
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So just to be clear this is an "I'm curious" kind of post and not a "something's wrong" kind of post. Also, I'm ignoring Artificer and Monk for obvious reasons for the sake of this discussion.

So. All five class dice require one of two types of equipment. I was under the impression that each class was roughly on the same power level as the others. But recently I realized that some classes are much easier to use than others. So I am wondering; was the power level adjusted based on how hard it is to get to use the class?

For example. The Wizard requires a dagger OR a staff. The Assassin requires a sword OR a whip.

But just in the base set, I have 3x sword and 3x whip, and guilds only provides 2x dagger and 2x staff. Thus there are 6 dice that can allow you to use the assassin, but only 4 that can allow you to use the wizard. And this "problem" is only exacerbated by the inclusion of one or two 5-player expansions. Suddenly I have 5x Sword and 6x Whip and only 2x dagger and 2x staff. If the difference in numbers wasn't significant before, it surely is now!

So my question was whether the classes were designed with this in mind, and what thoughts people had on this interesting situation. Is the Wizard die that much more powerful than the Assassin one? Or are they all designed to be roughly equal, and the difference in the amounts of different types of equipment just kind of a shrug-and-go-with it type of approach (completely fine for a game like this). I'm just curious as to who has thought about this before and what they've thought.

One of the reasons it especially stands out to me, I think, is because it was not lost on me that between all 9 classes, each type of equipment is present on exactly two class dice, keeping the classes "balanced" between the different types of equipment very well. So I just wondered if the frequency of some equipment was ALSO taken into account with balance in mind, or if that aspect was sacrificed for a more uniform distribution of "each equipment can unlock two different classes".

Anyway, what do you think? I'm loving the game so far and found myself wondering about this today. I'd love to hear responses from the creator and from other players!
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Matt Mason
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Interesting observation. I had already grasped the obvious differences between arming a Knight (2 equipment requirements) and a Monk (none), but I hadn't really considered the likelihood of drawing the various weapons from the bag(s).

I think it is worth pointing out that one of the intents behind the class dice was to foster trading between the players (trading equipment as well as class dice). This is somewhere in the KS page I believe, or buried here in BGG, I don't recall.
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Sam Coates
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Well, I'm going to have to jump in, since I have a love for mechanics.

Assassin is sword(3) or bow(2)
Wizard is dagger(2) or staff(2)

No class has two of the items with multiples of 3, except for the Knight, and he requires armor as well. So the classes are all basically 4 or 5 options.

It doesn't matter though. I think it matters far more that they do well in playtesting. For example, the Thief used to require two items (a sort of dual wielding setup), but it proved to make him too rarely used. The staves used to be 2-handed, but this made wizards unpopular. Basically, it was playtested until there were no dumb classes.
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Tylor Lilley
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Scoates2 wrote:
No class has two of the items with multiples of 3, except for the Knight, and he requires armor as well. So the classes are all basically 4 or 5 options.


This is true and very interesting. Did you have any thoughts on what happens when we add a couple of the 5-player expansions into the mix? Won't that surely move some classes (like the Wizard) even further away?
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Donn Hardy
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To Tylor's original point, I would agree that the Wizard is a very powerful class. He has some of the best abilities, so maybe it is appropriate for his two weapons to be among the rarest.

On the other hand, this is another reason why I remove all of my duplicates.
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Sam Coates
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I don't believe it matters if some classes are better or more likely than others. Consider how some equipment is better than others. It just adds to the fun.

I will definitely get backer feedback on the booster packs before we run the next project.
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Tylor Lilley
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Scoates2 wrote:
I don't believe it matters if some classes are better or more likely than others. Consider how some equipment is better than others. It just adds to the fun.


This is absolutely true; again I wasn't trying to say anything was wrong, I was just curious how much thought was given to whether the frequency of some items had been taken into consideration. And it sounds like it had! Minus any additional expansion pack shenanigans that is.

Thanks for your responses; it's always nice to be able to pick the mind of the game designer!
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Sam Coates
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I just enjoy talking about the mechanics.

It's something that's always interested me about games. I guess that's obvious by now.
 
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