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Subject: question regarding addition of active dice rss

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Paul O'Connor
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Cards such as the Handwerker allow the addition of an active die of a fixed value (a "one," in the case of the Handwerker).

May such dice then be modified by another card (such as the Zauberer, which can change an active die to any number)? (I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes.")

May the active die added by the Handwerker or a similar character then be re-rolled, or must it immediately become part of the player's stock of "set aside" dice? (This is the one I can't figure out.)

Thanks in advance ... I think I like this game but I want to make sure I'm playing it right.
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(Mr.) Kim Beattie
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The die added by the Handwerker (as well as similar cards) is added to the "active" pool of dice. Once the die is added to the active pool, other cards may modify the die or it may be re-rolled.
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Tom Lehmann
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Once a "preset" die has become active by bringing it into play, it is treated just as any other active die: it can be affected by powers, set aside, or -- after at least one die has been set aside after a given roll -- rerolled with all the remaining active dice.

Note that a "preset" die can not be brought into play and rolled as part of a player's initial roll to start their turn (the "Strategy Tip" at the end of the German rules got a bit garbled and implies otherwise).
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Paul O'Connor
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Thanks to everyone for the speedy, clear, and authoritative reply!
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Ben Wang
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generalpf wrote:
You're welcome.

I don't know who this Tom Lehmann guy is, but he's really coming across as a know-it-all.

He is the designer of this game.
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Kendall Johns
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generalpf wrote:
You're welcome.

I don't know who this Tom Lehmann guy is, but he's really coming across as a know-it-all.


He is the designer of this game.

I think he probably knew that.
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Mark Biggar
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kimbo wrote:
The die added by the Handwerker (as well as similar cards) is added to the "active" pool of dice. Once the die is added to the active pool, other cards may modify the die or it may be re-rolled.


This doesn't seem right. By my reading of the rules, you can use only a single card's power each time you roll your active dice. Thus using a card that adds a die to the active pool is that one card and you can't use another card's power until after you set some dice aside and roll again. So you can't bring in a die and immediately use another card to change it.
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Steve Oliver
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Seems like as long as you only use each card once per turn, you can use more than one card on a die. One card could bring in a preset die, then another card can change it. That's how we play it.
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Connie Gunderson
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Once a "preset" die has become active by bringing it into play, it is treated just as any other active die: it can be affected by powers, set aside, or -- after at least one die has been set aside after a given roll -- rerolled with all the remaining active dice.


My (Rio Grande) rules don't talk about "preset" dice, nor do they explain what is meant by the dice "supply", referred to in the rule book, but not defined anywhere. I have a feeling the two terms are related. I just can't hack my way thru the thicket of these rules! If you can explain what is meant by "the supply", and also "preset" dice (if "the supply" explanation doesn't already make clear what "preset" means...), I think I'll understand better.

Thanks, Tom (or anyone else)

cgund
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Tom Lehmann
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Sorry, Connie, I was using the terms that the questioner used (translated from the German edition), not the ones used in the English (RGG) rules, in an attempt to answer his question as clearly as I could. I didn't mean to confuse you.

(This is one of the odd effects of a US designer whose seen his prototype translated into German and then back-translated (because that's easier for Jay) into English again. I still have to remember that the "Warlord" (what I originally called the "Feldherr") is now called the General!)

A player has two types of dice -- the dice you roll to start your turn, which includes the three dice you start with plus any additional dice "to roll" that you have earned during play (from powers such as the General), and dice which you can "bring in" at any time during your turn (from powers such as the Knight or Bishop), once you've made your initial roll.

Most dice brought into play, such as the dice provided by the Knight or Bishop, enter play with a specific value (5 or 6 in their case). This is what the questioner was referring to as "preset dice". Once these dice have entered play, they can then be modified or rerolled just as all the other dice.

After each roll, you must set aside at least one die. Set aside dice can not be modified or rerolled. Once all your active dice have been set aside, you use them to obtain a new character card, ending your turn.

So, your dice are always in one of three places. They are waiting to be brought into play (only those dice provided by powers such as the Knight or Bishop before they are brought into play); they are active, in play, or they are set aside. That's it.

The "dice supply" is just a term that the German rules invented to refer to the total pool of dice that you currently have. Ignore this term. Just think in terms of the dice you roll; the dice you bring into play (which together become your active dice); and the dice you have set aside.

Does this help?


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Connie Gunderson
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
A player has two types of dice -- the dice you roll to start your turn, which includes the three dice you start with plus any additional dice "to roll" that you have earned during play (from powers such as the General), and dice which you can "bring in" at any time during your turn (from powers such as the Knight or Bishop), once you've made your initial roll.


I think one thing that's consistently confusing me is the possessive term "have" (or "has") regarding the dice. Do I "have" dice that I, and I alone, draw from? Or are the 15 dice all just sitting there at the outset, and I grab three of them when it's my turn (or more depending on whatever special cards I might choose to bring into play), do my turn, and then however many dice I've used on my turn all get returned to the communal pool of 15, and now it's someone else's turn?

Tom Lehmann wrote:


Most dice brought into play, such as the dice provided by the Knight or Bishop, enter play with a specific value (5 or 6 in their case). This is what the questioner was referring to as "preset dice". Once these dice have entered play, they can then be modified or rerolled just as all the other dice.


This confused me in the RG rules - it sounded to me like there's a pile of dice (the "supply") at the outset of the game that are sort of "pre-assigned" values of 1 thru 6, and if you can only play a Knight if there is still a 5-value die sitting in the pile of dice set aside as the "supply" pile.

But now I think I'm understanding that if you want to play a Knight, you just grab one of the dice not currently have in play, one of the ones just sitting off to the side, sitting idle at the moment. You grab one of those, bringing it into play, 5 pips up. It's a 5 now, which I can choose to set aside or else re-roll. Yes?


Tom Lehmann wrote:
So, your dice are always in one of three places. They are waiting to be brought into play (only those dice provided by powers such as the Knight or Bishop before they are brought into play); they are active, in play, or they are set aside. That's it.


Again, that confusing possessive. They're not "mine", right? They're all everyone's, and they're only "yours" (or "mine") to the extent it's your (or my) turn. So all of "THE" (sorry, I feel like I'm writing like Grognads!) dice are in one of three places: they are active, in play, or set aside. Yes?

Thanks a lot for your time and patience, Tom! You're swell, and how awesome that you provide personal service here on the geek. Great! I do have one more question for you about the Rio Grande instruction booklet but I'll await confirmation on the above.

Best,
connie
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Tom Lehmann
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Yes, the physical dice supplied with the game are common, shared among players. On a given player's turn, they take all their "to roll" dice and roll them. They then take additional "to bring in" dice as they bring them into play (as per your example). These active dice are then set aside or rerolled (with at least one die set aside each roll).

After a player has finished his or her turn, the next player goes, using the common dice in the same manner.

Typically, most players at the start of their turn, put their "to bring in" dice on the character cards that provide them as a reminder. They then count up all their "to roll" dice (turning or flipping over those characters that provide them) and add them to their three base dice and then roll those dice.
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Jeff Binning
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Quote:
I think one thing that's consistently confusing me is the possessive term "have" (or "has") regarding the dice. Do I "have" dice that I, and I alone, draw from? Or are the 15 dice all just sitting there at the outset, and I grab three of them when it's my turn (or more depending on whatever special cards I might choose to bring into play), do my turn, and then however many dice I've used on my turn all get returned to the communal pool of 15, and now it's someone else's turn?


What we do, initially to avoid this confusion, and now, just to make the game go faster, is to give each player their own set of dice.

So you start with 3 dice to roll at the beginning of each turn, and add one to this initial roll of your turn if you have a farmer, another 1 each for any charlatans, and 2 more if you have a general.

As we win cards that allow "fixed" dice, we place a die on the card with the appropriate number showing, and add them in as we wish after each turn's initial roll. These fixed dice get re-set on their cards once your turn is over, and the next turn starts with your initial dice, which gradually increases from the starting 3, if you obtain the farmer, general, and/or charlatans.

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Kevin Rutherford
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I was shown this game while at Origins this past week. The lady that showed me the game had custom dice sets for player. Each player had a set of 7 white dice and 7 red dice. We would keep the initial three white dice in front of us and then put one die on each card. We'd put white dice on "additional dice" cards and red dice on the "fixed number die" with the proper number turned up. This way when we'd take our turn we'd just pick up the proper die from whatever card we were using at the time. Once we were finished with our turn we would then resort our dice returning them back to their cards while the other players were taking there next turns.

I have to say that this method made it much easier to learn the game and things went much quicker, too. I ordered the game and, before I left Origins, picked up enough dice (10mm size) and dice bags for up to five players.
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