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Subject: Why there is no new invention card in turn 8 and 9? rss

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Shingo Ishikawa
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Do you know what is the reason behind having no new invention card turn up during turn 8 and 9?

To me that takes away some of the strategic element of the game.. as during turn 7 you can only plan your action based on what is already there or might turn up after turn 7. Especially then in those last two rounds.. everyone would be likely to be competing for the same invention, and will most likely result in the blind auction tie breakers. Wouldn't it make the game more strategic if you could plan another new invention to turn up after round 8 and planned to finish it at round 9?

This is just my initial thought after one play, so any further comments on this and why the rule states no new invention in round 8 and 9 would be appreciated.

Thank you

Edited the subject line to make my point clearer
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Andy
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I've only played it twice, but I was sure that you DO turn over new inventions in the last turns... that's certainly how we played it.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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shingoi wrote:
Do you know what is the reason behind having no new invention card turn up during turn 8 and 9?

To me that takes away some of the strategic element of the game.

Someone tought that having new inventions appearing on Turn 8 would have been a bit too much luck based ("oh, I just have the extra resources needed to build this new invention"), since it wasn't possible to plan for it (unless you had used the Council to look at the deck, but still...).
Turn 9 of course is irrelevant.

If you want to play with new inventions appearing on Turn 8, do so! Of course state it clearly at the beginning of the game. After you'll have played some times in the "printed" way and some more times with this "variant", report your impressions (and then follow the rule you prefer!).

Have fun! meeple
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Shingo Ishikawa
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Thank you Luca for your reply!!

I can certainly see that it'll make more luck heavy in fact.. to have new card turning up.. or give too much importance or advantage to the person who could look further 4 cards and rearrange it.

It's always nice to get answers and comments from designer or people who are involved in the play testing, where I'm sure a lot of these issues were considered and fixed.

 
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John Weber
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My understanding from earlier posts here was that, at the end of Turn 7, new inventions are added to fill the row but that this is not done thereafter (Turns 8 and 9 being "pure research" turns). Please let me know if this is incorrect.
 
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Michael Webb
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Per a Mayfair rep response, your interpretation is correct.
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Luca Iennaco
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John Weber wrote:
My understanding from earlier posts here was that, at the end of Turn 7, new inventions are added to fill the row but that this is not done thereafter (Turns 8 and 9 being "pure research" turns). Please let me know if this is incorrect.

It is correct. thumbsup
Do you think there's any contradiction between this rule and what we've written in this thread?
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Jonathan Franklin
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As the 15 point cards only seem to come up at Round 7, are people buying pair of commodities in round 6 just to cover all possibilities? I have ended up buying unnecessary commodities just to cover the gold card possibilities. Have people won with no gold inventions and no stockpiling?

Where I end up is wondering how much of the game turns on which gold cards come up in round 7 & who has those commodities, so that building can start in round 8 & continue to completion in round 9.

The idea of filling invention slots in round 8 does not make much sense, as you cannot complete them in one round. What have I missed?
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Luca Iennaco
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grandslam wrote:
The idea of filling invention slots in round 8 does not make much sense, as you cannot complete them in one round. What have I missed?

Due to how the deck is built, you could get some non-gold invention in Turn 8.
Besides, if you've three earlier inventions of the same kind, the "specialization bonus" allows you to score 15 points of work in a single turn (two robots + master + 3 workers + 6 bonus points).
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Terry Simo
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
grandslam wrote:
The idea of filling invention slots in round 8 does not make much sense, as you cannot complete them in one round. What have I missed?

Due to how the deck is built, you could get some non-gold invention in Turn 8.
Besides, if you've three earlier inventions of the same kind, the "specialization bonus" allows you to score 15 points of work in a single turn (two robots + master + 3 workers + 6 bonus points).


I didn't think you could place the master and workers together or does that not apply to inventions?

T-Mo
 
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jbrier
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T-Mo wrote:


I didn't think you could place the master and workers together or does that not apply to inventions?

T-Mo


You certainly can send the master to the same place where you already have apprentices or vice versa.

What you can't do is place apprentices and master in the same move. So the master gets placed as an individual move.
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Jacob Lee
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Master & apprentices simultaneously...
I don't see what difference it makes whether you place the the Master and apprentices together in the same move or not. If I really want to come in first in a certain building and , let's say, I budget to allow two apprentices and a master to go there, what difference does it make if I place the two apprentices there first in one turn, everyone else takes their turns, and then I place my master there. Maybe it messes up other people, but it makes no difference to me. I don't see why I should not have the ability to move a master & apprentices together.

Am I missing something?
 
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Giacomo Mangiarano
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EmperorJacob wrote:
I don't see what difference it makes whether you place the the Master and apprentices together in the same move or not. If I really want to come in first in a certain building and , let's say, I budget to allow two apprentices and a master to go there, what difference does it make if I place the two apprentices there first in one turn, everyone else takes their turns, and then I place my master there. Maybe it messes up other people, but it makes no difference to me. I don't see why I should not have the ability to move a master & apprentices together.

Am I missing something?


Just immagine this:
You want to send the master and 2 apprentices at the accademy.
In the first turn you move the 2 apprentices.
Then let everyone place their apprentices and masters holding your master for the last turn of moving... You keep the master and place the other apprentices.
Immagine noone else has put something on the accademy, now with the master left you can change a majority in another place or place it in the
lab...
Moving the master and apprentices together will lose for yourself the opportunity of choosing a better position for the master.
Hope this helps..
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Jacob Lee
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Thanks, Giacomo, but I don't feel better about the rules. I understand your scenario and why placing the master in a separate turn gives you more flexibility, possibly saving you points toward a different building, etc.

But it doesn't help me understand why I can't have the ability to place the master and apprentices simultaneously. That's all.

If I were to rewrite the rules, I would say that you can do either because it doesn't hurt the gameplay. It changes the tactics being devised in people's minds, but the game is still the same. And it is an awesome game.
 
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jbrier
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EmperorJacob wrote:
Thanks, Giacomo, but I don't feel better about the rules. I understand your scenario and why placing the master in a separate turn gives you more flexibility, possibly saving you points toward a different building, etc.

But it doesn't help me understand why I can't have the ability to place the master and apprentices simultaneously. That's all.

If I were to rewrite the rules, I would say that you can do either because it doesn't hurt the gameplay. It changes the tactics being devised in people's minds, but the game is still the same. And it is an awesome game.


The rule isn't included because there is no circumstance where doing it would be advantageous. This happens in plenty of games where a move that makes no sense to make isn't covered in the rules.
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Luca Iennaco
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EmperorJacob wrote:
If I were to rewrite the rules, I would say that you can do either because it doesn't hurt the gameplay. It changes the tactics being devised in people's minds, but the game is still the same.

If you've chosen to send the master in a specific location no-matter-what, place the apprentices there and then the master when it's your turn to play again. What's the problem? Are you afraid to forget the "planned move" if you must wait a few seconds to implement it?
The move you propose is strictly WORSE than what the rules allow, so there was no need to include it as an option.
Of course, house rules exist for a reason...

Have fun! meeple
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