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David Kahnt
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I should have been taking notes because this would have made an interesting session report.

After playing a game of Dragon Riders (me) vs. Alchemists (him) and me losing by only four points, we decide to play another game.

We have played more then two dozen games and usually just pull from the bag and pick a side. We give one mulligan.

This time I suggested we try the auction version in the expansion.

As per rules, I reached in and grabbed the first tile... Fakirs and then the second.... Mermaids.

Both of the markers were on 40 and we went back and forth for the Mermaids until it reached 30.... I could have gone down more but I wasn't quite sure seeing how this was our first auction. He got Mermaids at 30 and I played Fakirs at 40.

The funny thing is... I won. I had been reading up on Fakirs and basically played the bonus points for each town, carpet riding as much as possible with E1 bonus giving me 8 points per dwelling... I got one city and too the 4vp +1 flight chip. It was quite amazing.

I won by 16 points, which meant the 10 point variant at the beginning did not matter as much.

Yeah my score was technically boosted by 40, but I was still very proud of myself.

-DK
 
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Rhett Morgan
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DKahnt wrote:
He got Mermaids at 30 and I played Fakirs at 40.


You are saying, right, that he started at 10 points and you started at 40 points?
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David Kahnt
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Prodigaldax wrote:
DKahnt wrote:
He got Mermaids at 30 and I played Fakirs at 40.


You are saying, right, that he started at 10 points and you started at 40 points?


Hmm... perhaps my sentence was unclear. Sorry.

He "paid" 10 vp's for mermaids and went down to 30. I didn't "pay" anything for Fakirs and stayed at 40.

-DK
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Scott Douglass
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Which map did you play on? Fakirs are supposed to be much more reasonable on the expansion map.
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David Kahnt
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sdougla2 wrote:
Which map did you play on? Fakirs are supposed to be much more reasonable on the expansion map.


I think we played on the Fire & Ice map --- volcano side.

We also had the extra end scoring of farthest SH/SA distance... of which I didn't have either.

-DK
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Milena Guberinic
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Fakirs are more powerful in a 2-player game because they can more easily expand. With more players, they are more likely to get blocked out of too many carpet flights. Also, maybe the initial setup was favorable to the Fakirs over the Mermaids and you guys just ignored that because the Fakirs are "supposed to be" less powerful...I don't know about that though...just a guess
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David Kahnt
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milenaguberinic wrote:
Also, maybe the initial setup was favorable to the Fakirs over the Mermaids and you guys just ignored that because the Fakirs are "supposed to be" less powerful...I don't know about that though...just a guess


Oh, I'm sure that's right...

-DK
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Robert
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Yeah, auctioning works nicely in 2p games, since the bidding is usually quite clearly for one of the two factions and both players have full control over the VP delta at the start. I've had quite a few fun games this way (all FtF).

In a 4p auction, if you win the 1st auction you have no influence on how reasonable the price for the remaining factions is, and if they are sold cheaply, you may stand no chance. E.g. if the factions are objectively worth (whatever that means ) 30VP, 20VP, 10VP and 0VP, you may be happy to get the #1 faction at 26VP, until you find that #2 went for 5VP and #3 for 2VP.
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David Kahnt
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It's fun, it's healthy, it's good exercise. The kids will just love it. And we put a little sand inside to make the experience more pleasant.
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DocCool wrote:
Yeah, auctioning works nicely in 2p games, since the bidding is usually quite clearly for one of the two factions and both players have full control over the VP delta at the start. I've had quite a few fun games this way (all FtF).

In a 4p auction, if you win the 1st auction you have no influence on how reasonable the price for the remaining factions is, and if they are sold cheaply, you may stand no chance. E.g. if the factions are objectively worth (whatever that means ) 30VP, 20VP, 10VP and 0VP, you may be happy to get the #1 faction at 26VP, until you find that #2 went for 5VP and #3 for 2VP.


Do you find the 4p auction is a level playing field then, or no? What do you think is the win ratio of the first player who picks?

-DK
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Robert
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DKahnt wrote:
Do you find the 4p auction is a level playing field then, or no? What do you think is the win ratio of the first player who picks?
So far I've only played four 4p auction games online (several more 2p games F2F), and in the 4p setup the auction system leaves something to be desired, while it shines in 2p games.

There's already a discussion thread about auctioning over at the TM F&I forum, so I propose to discuss 4p auctioning over there: Some exercise in auctioning (1st page is about some examplified setups for auction, 2nd page discusses how to overcome certain weaknesses in the auctioning process).
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