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Subject: 2P session, plus some good rule changes rss

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Andrew Swan
Australia
Randwick
NSW
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Cracked open this favourite with the SO last night. We used the following variants:
- take out the libraries (we find it's "game over" if someone gets one)
- deal surplus cards initially and discard down to four (as described in the rule book)

Gerri was the start player, so I had six cards to choose from. With both the Smithy and the Guild Hall in my hand, my strategy was obvious - build as many production buildings as possible. With the Smithy in play, these became very cheap for their VP value:


Plant VPs* Base Cost Cost with Smthy Cost with Smthy & Bldr
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indigo 3 1 0 0
Sugar 3 2 1 0
Tobacco 4 3 2 1
Coffee 4 4 3 2
Silver 5 5 4 3


(* Including two point Guild Hall bonus)

Being able to build a 5 VP building for 3 cards is very powerful - better cost/benefit ratio than the monuments (Statue, Hero, etc.), which return 1:1. Plus they generate goods as well! This combo is close to broken. Even if your opponent chooses the Builder, all you need is an Indigo plant in your hand and bang, three VPs for free.

In the end, I ended the game with all 12 buildings:
- Smithy
- Guild Hall
- Hero
- 9 production buildings

With a score of 39 to 21, I won handily. 18 of my points came from my Guild Hall.

In the future, we might use Pat Brennan's suggested variant, in which the Guild Hall only awards two points for each type of production building (for a maximum of ten).
 
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d peruzzini
United States
cheektowaga
New York
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yes, we routinely remove the library in 2 player games also but leave the guilld hall and have very close games
 
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Gabe Edwards
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Cambridge
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If you think the Library is unbalanced, why would you only take it out in 2p games?
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
I think it's ridiculous that people play without the library in a 2P game because it's "game over".. and then play the Guild Hall strategy.



Great DITTO!
 
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Kevin Bourrillion
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Because it's only in the 2p game that it's as seriously unbalanced as it is.

I don't think the library really *breaks* the 2p game, but it does harm it a little because it creates an "imperative"... if you're playing a 2p game and you can manage to find a library, you "must" build it... especially if your opponent just built one. If you don't, I think winning will be hard.
 
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Warren Forrest
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game_boy wrote:
- take out the libraries (we find it's "game over" if someone gets one)

I admit I'm always a bit puzzled when people do this for 2P, but not 3P.

In 2P, the library gives you an advantage 1 time per 3 role selections by all players. That's exactly the same as in 3P. Or am I overlooking something?

Quote:
Being able to build a 5 VP building for 3 cards is very powerful - better cost/benefit ratio than the monuments (Statue, Hero, etc.), which return 1:1.

Keep in mind, though, that it's actually 4 cards for 5VP, because you have to "spend" the actual card you're building too. Same with the monuments; they're not actually paying out 1:1, because you also have to factor in "spending" the monument card itself.

So even building a dirt-cheap Indigo plant still costs 1 card, namely the Indigo card itself.

Quote:
In the future, we might use Pat Brennan's suggested variant, in which the Guild Hall only awards two points for each type of production building (for a maximum of ten).

I'm somewhat divided on this variant. I think my main concern with the Guild Hall / Smithy combo is not that it's necessarily too powerful or unbeatable, but rather just that it's so simple and straight-forward that it takes all the thought and decision-making out of the game.

I mean, when I get an early Smithy / Guild Hall, I almost feel like I'm just going to be on auto-pilot, because of course I know what I'm going to be doing for the rest of the game. And that kinda sucks...
 
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d peruzzini
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cheektowaga
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it just seems that i you get it on the first draw or so it really really unbalances the game, we've play many games 2 player and when one player draws it early on and the other player never draws it it it almost unbatable, in the 3 player game it just isnt as much of a problem
 
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Andrew Swan
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Randwick
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
I think it's ridiculous that people play without the library in a 2P game because it's "game over".. and then play the Guild Hall strategy.

"Ridiculous" is a bit harsh, not least because the Library is a one-card game turner, with no strategy involved, whereas the Guild Hall / Smithy combo is at least a combo that has to be conceived and implemented.

Anyway, I have since found out that we were playing the Library wrongly, i.e. the holder was using it twice during their Governorship, even though the rules disallow this. So next game, we will try with the Libraries back in the deck, as the designer intended.
 
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Warren Forrest
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game_boy wrote:
i.e. the holder was using it twice during their Governorship, even though the rules disallow this. So next game, we will try with the Libraries back in the deck, as the designer intended.

Yep, that would definately make it uber-overpowered!

I have thought about it some more though, and I suppose in 3P you're not always guaranteed either a Prospector or Builder to use your Library with, like you are in 2P. So I guess it's still most useful in 2P.
 
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