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Subject: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks? rss

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Mark Tyler
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I think I know the answer to this question but just to be sure here goes.

I am just learning the game and prefer to play by the World Crokinole rules found here http://www.worldcrokinole.com/

Quote:
if during the contestant's shot an opposing disc is NOT struck, either directly or indirectly, the shooting disc is removed from the board. IN ADDITION TO THIS, ALL OTHER DISCS OF THE SHOOTING CONTESTANT WHICH HAVE BEEN TOUCHED IN ATTEMPT TO REMOVE AN OPPOSING DISC, ARE ALSO REMOVED FROM THE BOARD.


So the above rule says if there are opposing disks on the board and I fail to make a legal shot, I must remove my disk and any of my disks contacted.

Quote:
If there are no opposing discs on the board, a contestant may shoot for the centre hole. The shooting disc must remain in the 15 circle or at least touching the 15 circle line. This stipulation forces the play to the centre of the board and removes the potential of hiding such shots in protected areas (such as behind pegs). Failure to satisfy this stipulation will result in the disc being removed from play.


So the above rule says if there are NO opposing disks on the board and I fail to make a legal shot, I remove ONLY my shooting disk and NOT any of my own disks that were contacted. Well, at least that is how I interpret the rules.

So am I correct in thinking that you never remove more that just your shooting disk if you fail to land in the 15 point zone on a free shot?
 
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David Reed
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
You are correct in your understanding of the rules (as least as I understand them...).

1) If your opponent has a disc on the board, you must strike it for your shot to count.
2) If you hit one (or more) of your own discs and also hit one of your opponent's discs, nothing is removed.
3) If you hit (or more) of your own discs and do not hit one of your opponent's discs, the disc you used and every one of the discs that it hit are removed from play.
4) If your opponent has no discs on the board, you can shoot for the 20 hole. Even if you miss the 20 hole and hit several of your discs, the disc you use and all others will remain on the board. If you are playing with the rule that the free shot must be inside the 15 ring, then the disc just shot must be removed if it fails to end up inside the 15 ring, but the other discs struck are not removed, even if they wind up outside of the 15 ring.

I'm sure that there are more elegant ways of putting it, but I think I got in all of the variables...
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Mark McEvoy
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
Another common 'variant' on the rules is what constitutes 'contact' (and even more specifically, "direct or indirect contract", as it applies to legal shotmaking when an opponent's disc is on the board.


1. I fire shooting disc and it strikes opponent's disc first. Legal.
2. I fire shooting disc, the shooting disc strikes one of my own discs and then the shooting disc strikes an opponent disc. I assume this is legal by worldcrokinole rules, but I believe some players play by a 'direct first contact only' rule (like in 8-ball) and would call this shot a foul.
3. I fire shooting disc and it strikes one of my own discs and that disc then strikes an opposing disc. This one I'm foggy on - is the term 'indirect contact' supposed to include only example #2? Or does that also include combinations ion which an already-on-the-board disc is the one making contact?

I have always played that all of the above are OK, legal shots. But I am not certain that's how the Worlds' rules intend to mean 'indirect contact'.
 
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J C Lawrence
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
thatmarkguy wrote:
1. I fire shooting disc and it strikes opponent's disc first. Legal.
2. I fire shooting disc, the shooting disc strikes one of my own discs and then the shooting disc strikes an opponent disc. I assume this is legal by worldcrokinole rules, but I believe some players play by a 'direct first contact only' rule (like in 8-ball) and would call this shot a foul.
3. I fire shooting disc and it strikes one of my own discs and that disc then strikes an opposing disc. This one I'm foggy on - is the term 'indirect contact' supposed to include only example #2? Or does that also include combinations ion which an already-on-the-board disc is the one making contact?


I've always played with all three above in use and the rule that if there are no opponent discs on the board and my shot disk ends up outside the 15 ring that all directly or indirectly contacted discs are removed from the board.
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Mark Tyler
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately, we didn't come to a consensus. A reply from someone who has played at a crokinole tournament might help to tip the scale to one side or the other. Thanks!
 
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Justin
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i'll email wayne kelly at mrcrokinole
 
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Justin
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Yes, a combination shot is allowed.
Some prefer to include the notion that your "shooting" discs much enter and
remain within the 'pin'circle, or it (and any other of your own discs that
have been touched) will be removed from the board. The World Crokinole
Championship rules may vary on this point. Since I am no longer on their
executive committee, I am not really certain where their thinking is on
this. Perhaps, as often the case with obscure rules, is to just establish
before play what your local 'house' rule is on this particular point.
[the Crokinole police are very 'forgiving' on such issues!]

Kind regards,
Wayne Kelly - Mr. Crokinole www.crokinole.com
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Mark Tyler
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
Justin,

Thanks for your reply. Now I am curious what question you asked.

Sounds like Wayne is saying as long as your shooter OR one of your contacted disks ends up in the 15 point circle the shot is legal. That is good to know but not the question I asked.

Regarding my question, Wayne seems to say that the rules aren't clear whether all contacted disks must be removed on a failed free shot. I guess for now I will play that only the shooter disk is removed.
 
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Justin
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1191090

it's described in the first post at this web site

basically, if you hit your own discs when you're going for a "free shot" (trying to hit the 20 because your opponent has nothing on the board while you do) are they still ousted?
 
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paul sitko
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
We play with the rules given here:
http://www.worldcrokinole.com/rules.html

which explicitly state:
Quote:

11. a) If there are no opposing discs on the board, a contestant may shoot for the centre hole. The shooting disc must remain in the 15 circle or at least be touching the 15 circle. This stipulation forces the play to the centre of the board and removes the potential of hiding such shots in protected areas (such as behind pegs). Failure to satisfy this stipulation will result in all the discs touched being removed from play.

b) In the event there are no opposition’s buttons on the board a raised shot is allowed. Instead of your shooting disc meeting the stipulations in rule 11) a) you can use your shooting disc to raise or move an existing disc from outside the 15 circle to comply with rule 11) a) would be considered a legal shot. Failure to satisfy this stipulation will result in all the discs touched being removed from play.


We interpret this to mean that if you have a free shot and have disks on the board, one of your disks, either:

a)your shooting disk or
b)another disk that, before your shot is neither within NOR TOUCHING the 15 circle

must end up within or at least touching the fifteen circle. Otherwise, the shooting disk, and all the disks it contacts, are removed. That's probably about the strictest interpretation of the rules you can get. And we're pretty hardcore about our crokinole around these parts...

"These parts" being my office.
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Mark McEvoy
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Re: What if free shot misses and contacts some of your disks
Paul: those rules get amended every year. I don't believe that rule (11b, raised shots) was a part of the rules as they were posted the last time anyone posted in this thread before you.

A lot of people get accustomed to playing by the World Crokinole Championship rules, and then the rules change but people keep playing in their homes with the rules as they were when they learned them (usually unaware that the rules have changed, unless they're WCC attendees). It shouldn't be surprising to you that few people follow the 'promotion' rule, especially in a discussion thread that (to the best of my knowledge) preceded the WCCs' inclusion of that rule.


*I'm not 100% certain exactly when they added that rule, but it isn't in archive.org's last archived version of that page, from February 2005. By the 'official' rules as of February 2005, such a promotion shot was not legal.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050208103303/http://www.worldcrokinole.com/rules.html

Based on the contents of the original poster's question (and the fact that he even asked the question), it looks to me like the rules as of November 2006 were the exact same (in this respect, anyway) as the Feb 2005 rules. The 'Promotion Rule' seems to be a 2007 addition.


It's entirely possible the rules were amended BECAUSE of discussion created by this thread. Which makes it seem all the more funny for you to post on this thread telling us about following the same rule site that this thread's original post identified as ambiguous.
 
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