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Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Running out of Encounter Cards as the Defense on your turn rss

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Matthew Oberholtzer
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A while back I played a game where on my turn I drew the Invasion! destiny for my first encounter. My opponent played an N against my attack, and took the rest of my hand (4 cards) as compensation. He claimed that I should draw a new hand, since I was out of encounter cards before my first encounter. I said that I already had an encounter, even though it was as the defense and didn't count towards my two encounter limit, and thus my turn was over. Who was right?

Another question that came up that game that I'm 99% sure I was right on is that you regroup a ship at the start of both encounters on your turn, and not just the first one. My opponent claimed he had never heard that rule before. (Of course, he also referred to the game as Cosmic Encounters, so I'm inclined to not listen to his rules.)
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Ed Vreeland
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Looking at the Invasion! cards it says if you are not the Invader:

Quote:
The Invader player becomes the offense and immediately has an encounter with you in your home system. This encounter doesn't count as one of your encounters, and after it concludes, your turn continues.


The last part is what probably matters. "Your turn continues" since the destiny phase happens after your regroup phase which ostensibly is after the start of your turn you were right. Your turn started and you had cards, if you lose your cards in any way after that your turn ends.

see page 7 of the Rulesbook:

Quote:
The player whose turn it is (the offense) first checks his or her
hand to make sure it contains at least one encounter card. If
it does not, the player reveals any cards remaining in hand,
discards them, then draws a new hand of eight cards. This is
the only time during the offense’s turn that he or she may get a
new hand of cards in this fashion.
Should the offense run out
of encounter cards later on, his or her turn ends (see “Drawing
New Cards” on page 13).


For your second question, yes you are correct. In fact the answer to this questions is also on Page 7 of the Rulebook. Paraphrasing between two sections:

Quote:
Each encounter is comprised of seven phases, which
are described in the following sections...

...
Phases of an Encounter
1. Regroup
2. Destiny
3. Launch
4. Alliance
5. Planning
6. Reveal
7. Resolution
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Ed Vreeland
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As a followup though, if someone played a plague after you drew the Invasion! card (which they can do since they have an encounter with you when that happens) and cause you to discard all your cards, would you then be eligible to draw a card? Though the invasion card does not explicitly state that you are the defense it seems like it would be necessary for the flow of the game for you to draw a hand of cards.
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Mil Myman
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I never thought of that before - that the Invader can cause a player to lose his entire turn, if he takes all the player's encounter cards in compensation.

But yeah, I don't see a rule-based way around that.

I have long suspected that Regroup should be moved until *after* Destiny.

Suppose the player has no colonies, and puts his ship directly into the offensive end of the cone. Then he draws an Invasion! card in Destiny. Where does that ship go?
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Ed Vreeland
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[q]Suppose the player has no colonies, and puts his ship directly into the offensive end of the cone. Then he draws an Invasion! card in Destiny. Where does that ship go?[q]

My initial answer is the warp since there is nowhere to return to, however this then means that the player has no ships and could be forced to be the offense with no ships on the attack.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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You are right on both counts, Moberho. The only time the offense can draw a new hand is at the very start of his turn. Once he moves past that point, if he runs out of encounter cards before the time has come to play one, he's done. And, you do indeed retrieve a ship on every regroup phase.

Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Suppose the player has no colonies, and puts his ship directly into the offensive end of the cone. Then he draws an Invasion! card in Destiny. Where does that ship go?

In general, I'd say any offensive ships that must vacate the gate should return to colonies, as allies do when there's a deal or as happens in many other situations where somebody is dismissed from the gate in a "non-lethal storyline" (Skeptic, Wild Filth, Wild Mite, Wild Sniveler, etc.). In your particular example, of course, he has no colony to return to and thus has to go to the warp. But I would be clear that the reason he's going to the warp is specifically because he has no available colonies, not because he was dismissed from the gate.

Moberho wrote:
he also referred to the game as Cosmic Encounters, so I'm inclined to not listen to his rules

Nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks a person who wants to be taken seriously should at least know what the game is called. (And please don't call encounters "battles," folks. This ain't Pokémon.)
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Mil Myman
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Bill Martinson wrote:
You are right on both counts, Moberho. The only time the offense can draw a new hand is at the very start of his turn. Once he moves past that point, if he runs out of encounter cards before the time has come to play one, he's done. And, you do indeed retrieve a ship on every regroup phase.

Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Suppose the player has no colonies, and puts his ship directly into the offensive end of the cone. Then he draws an Invasion! card in Destiny. Where does that ship go?

In general, I'd say any offensive ships that must vacate the gate should return to colonies, as allies do when there's a deal or as happens in many other situations where somebody is dismissed from the gate in a "non-lethal storyline" (Skeptic, Wild Filth, Wild Mite, Wild Sniveler, etc.). In your particular example, of course, he has no colony to return to and thus has to go to the warp. But I would be clear that the reason he's going to the warp is specifically because he has no available colonies, not because he was dismissed from the gate.

And then when his turn continues, he must go through the encounter with 0 ships in the gate?
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Just a Bill
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
And then when his turn continues, he must go through the encounter with 0 ships in the gate?

Yup. Several things can cause that to happen.

Moral of the story: Try not to lose all of your colonies.
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Sorry for the double post.

I just realized that an alternate interpretation is at least arguable. Technically, there is no rule or game text that says the hyperspace gate must be cleared when the Invader becomes the offense due to an Invasion! card. Technically, the original offense's ship might still be sitting on the gate during that encounter.

Now, does this make him an uninvited offensive ally? Who knows. The Invasion! card says he "becomes the defense" so I would tend to say, no, he's not also an offensive ally. However, he does have a ship physically sitting on the gate, and the rules do say (emphasis mine) "IF THE OFFENSE WON ... All the ships on the hyperspace gate (the offense’s ships plus any allies’ ships) are placed on the planet."

Now, folks might debate whether that parenthetical phrase is restrictive or just descriptive, but in this case it probably wouldn't matter. The original offense's rogue ship either lands on the planet, or remains (again) in the gate. Either way it would (technically) be available when he re-starts his encounter.

This is all highly rules-lawyery and hair-splitting, and I'm certainly not saying it is the correct interpretation. But if somebody were about to have a phenomenally bad experience playing Cosmic Encounter because this extremely rare situation arose, I would let that guy use this questionable loophole to avoid having to prosecute his encounter with zero ships.

Now, switching to the designer's hat...

This makes me realize that it probably would have been more stable to solve the no-planet-to-regroup-to problem in the launch phase instead of the regroup phase:
Regroup
• Retrieve a ship from the warp to place on one of your colonies, if possible. (If you have no ships in the warp, or have no colonies, ignore this step.)

Launch
• Place 1 to 4 of your ships from colonies onto the gate. If you have no colonies, place one of your ships from the warp onto the gate.


Problem solved. And this approach would have been consistent with defensive hand refreshes: no matter what, the offense starts with a ship in the gate; no matter what, the defense will have an encounter card to play.
 
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Mil Myman
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Bill Martinson wrote:
Now, switching to the designer's hat...

This makes me realize that it probably would have been more stable to solve the no-planet-to-regroup-to problem in the launch phase instead of the regroup phase:
Regroup
• Retrieve a ship from the warp to place on one of your colonies, if possible. (If you have no ships in the warp, or have no colonies, ignore this step.)

Launch
• Place 1 to 4 of your ships from colonies onto the gate. If you have no colonies, place one of your ships from the warp onto the gate.


Problem solved. And this approach would have been consistent with defensive hand refreshes: no matter what, the offense starts with a ship in the gate; no matter what, the defense will have an encounter card to play.

Or, as I had said earlier, you could solve the problem by just switching the order of the Destiny and Regroup phases.
 
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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Bill Martinson wrote:

Now, does this make him an uninvited offensive ally? Who knows. The Invasion! card says he "becomes the defense" so I would tend to say, no, he's not also an offensive ally.


I mean, Lunatic can do it, the only difference is he specifically has that power instead of it having to wait for it to come about through happenstance .
 
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