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Subject: Bread and Games vs Hospital rss

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Jacek Nowak
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When I play the Bread and Games card, pay 2 gold coins and put two coloured figures on my hospital - do I have to declare the same additional colour point for both of them? Or maybe I can say that one of them is "black" (education) and the other is "blue" (hygiene)? The rules do not clarify this IMO. And another (related) question - if I play another Bread and Games card later and put figures on the same hospital - do I they have to support the same colour as the previous ones?
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howl hollow howl
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The English rules make it quite clear that all purchased figures are assigned to *one* of the colors. However, there is nothing in the rules that prevents you from using a later Bread and Games to assign figures to the other color.
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Mario Aguila
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I'm not sure about this interpretation.

the rules (in English):
If you place a colored citizen figure in a hospital, you must state, when you place the figure, whether it is the education value or the health value that is being increased.

Ok, this rules is obvious: because Hospital has 2 colours...if you put 1 colored citizen necessarily you need to state only one colour.

This rule doesn't refer to the situation of 2 citizens. For that reason, I find that in this situation, not tried in the rules, the logic indicates that a second citizen can be put on the other color (of course, the same as the first case, it should be indicated which color and not to be used as a joker).
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howl hollow howl
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I see you posted the same in other threads; I will just reply in this one.

My english rules say (and the bold text is as it appears in the rule):

Quote:

For 0 gold, place one of your colored citizen figures on one arch in one building in one of your cities.

For 2 gold, place two of your colored citizen figures on one arch in one building in one of your cities.

For 5 gold, place three of your colored citizen figures on one arch in one building in one of your cities.
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Mario Aguila
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Strange

My English rules, the last uploaded here with correcctions, say:

Quote:
For 0 gold you place 1 of your colored citizen figures in a building in your city.
For 2 gold you place 2 of your colored citizen figures in a building in your city.
For 5 gold you place 3 of your colored citizen figures in a building in your city.


Game: La Città
Filename: La Città - English Translation with Rules clarifications.doc
Uploaded By: Casulo
Uploaded On: 2006-10-26 01:03:54
Num Downloads: 249
Last Download: 2007-02-18 13:54:53
Description: English Translation with Rules Clarifications


You can see it at http://tinyurl.com/22fxlw

I have seen that these rules are the clearest of all published rules, because indeed they clarify errors and faults of the previous ones.

In accordance with this, the interpretation that I have given would be the correct one.
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Mario Aguila
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The complete paragraph:

Quote:
Bread and Circuses:

With the help of this card you can increase the attractiveness of your city by placing one of your colored citizen figures in a building. This figure brings in one additional attractiveness point, the type being dependent on the building in which you placed the figure.
Important: The effect of this card only lasts for the current year. Once the year has ended, you remove the figure and the building reverts to its normal value.

For 0 gold you place 1 of your colored citizen figures in a building in your city.
For 2 gold you place 2 of your colored citizen figures in a building in your city.
For 5 gold you place 3 of your colored citizen figures in a building in your city.


A colored citizen figure causes the value of the building in which the figure stands to increase by 1 point.

If you place the figure in a simple building, its value goes up from 1 to 2. So, for example, a cloister school containing a figure is worth 2 education attractiveness points. If you were to place the figure in a palace, the palace's value would increase from 2 to 3. If you place a colored citizen figure in a hospital, you must state, when you place the figure, whether it is the education value or the health value that is being increased.
If you place 2 or more of these figures in a building, each figure increases the building's value by one. If you play a further “bread and circuses'' card, you may add the figures to figures already placed.


I need to repeat: the only reason for the last bold statement is to avoid the delay in the decision of which of the values it is increasing. The idea is to avoid the player to decide it after the Voice of the People is determined
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howl hollow howl
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marioaguila wrote:
I have seen that these rules are the clearest of all published rules, because indeed they clarify errors and faults of the previous ones.

In accordance with this, the interpretation that I have given would be the correct one.


I am not going by a translation, but by the rules as published by Rio Grande Games in their stateside release of the game. Now, I will acknowledge that Jay has made mistakes before. But, given the clarity of the highlighted rule, this is the only way I can reasonably expect American players to play given that they will have the same rules in their copies of the game. In any case, the rules you quote are so vague that I am inclined to go with the wording that doesn't require an interpretation; without official errata, the rule as I quoted remains the "correct" rule for me.

Besides, Hospital is broken enough already, I am highly resistant to any rule changes which make it more powerful.
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Jim Cote
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I'm inclined to question the intent of the wording of the latest RGG rules. If you add a single word (ostensibly for claraification purposes), the meaning changes:

"For 2 gold, place two of your colored citizen figures each on one arch in one building in one of your cities."

It could be that the "on one arch" phrase was meant to imply that each citizen adds 1 to a single influence type instead of implying that all citizens must go on the same color. I'm not saying the assumptions made here are wrong, just that I'm not 100% convinced.
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Rik Van Horn
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ekted wrote:
I'm inclined to question the intent of the wording of the latest RGG rules. If you add a single word (ostensibly for claraification purposes), the meaning changes:

"For 2 gold, place two of your colored citizen figures each on one arch in one building in one of your cities."

It could be that the "on one arch" phrase was meant to imply that each citizen adds 1 to a single influence type instead of implying that all citizens must go on the same color. I'm not saying the assumptions made here are wrong, just that I'm not 100% convinced.

I'd see your point, BUT, in the rules the wording reads: place two of your colored citizen figures on one arch

I'm NOT adding the bold, the rules themselves have the word in bold. So for me the only way to read it is to say both go on one arch. There's no other reason to make the word ONE bold, since you can't break a citizen in half.
Well I suppose you could...well you understand.
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Jim Cote
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The proper way to word it to make it really unambiguous is to say "...place two of your colored citizen figures on the same arch..." Then I would say it's unquestionable. I'm only 90% sure at this point.
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Jacek Nowak
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Maybe somebody might look into original German rules and sort this out? I'd be very happy to know what was the author's opinion on how to play La Citta....
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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ja_n wrote:
Maybe somebody might look into original German rules and sort this out? I'd be very happy to know what was the author's opinion on how to play La Citta....


It's the same in the German rules: both guys go on ONE arch.
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Jim Cote
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I sent the following question to Jay (RGG):

Quote:
From your recent rulebook:

Bread and Games: "For 2 gold, place two of your colored citizen figures on one arch in one building in one of your cities."

Is this meant to imply that both citizens must be added to the same color arch in a Hospital? Or does it just mean that each added citizen must be assigned to a single arch immediately rather than waiting until the migration phase to decide?

He replied, quoting my second option:

Quote:
Quote:
each added citizen must be assigned to a single arch immediately rather than waiting until the migration phase to decide?
This is correct.

I was hoping for a more verbose response, but there it is.
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Seth Jaffee
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ekted wrote:
I sent the following question to Jay (RGG):

Quote:
From your recent rulebook:

Bread and Games: "For 2 gold, place two of your colored citizen figures on one arch in one building in one of your cities."

Is this meant to imply that both citizens must be added to the same color arch in a Hospital? Or does it just mean that each added citizen must be assigned to a single arch immediately rather than waiting until the migration phase to decide?

He replied, quoting my second option:

Quote:
Quote:
each added citizen must be assigned to a single arch immediately rather than waiting until the migration phase to decide?
This is correct.

I was hoping for a more verbose response, but there it is.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really clearly answer the question as to whether multiple figures bought simultaneously must go on the same color...
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Michael Thon
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Ponton wrote:
ja_n wrote:
Maybe somebody might look into original German rules and sort this out? I'd be very happy to know what was the author's opinion on how to play La Citta....


It's the same in the German rules: both guys go on ONE arch.


Actually, the German rules for the card "Bread & Games" state that "For two gold, place two figures of your color on a building in your city." Later on, there is a specific restriction for the hospital, worded as "For a figure on the hospital you must specify at the time of placement which value should be increased to 2 -- education *or* health."

This is somewhat ambiguous, and was addressed in the FAQs of the game designer's (Gerd Fenchel's) page (http://www.spielkristall.de/lacitta/index.html):

>---
Frage: Wenn man bei der Politik-Karte "Brot und Spiele" 2 oder mehr Bürgerfiguren aufs Mal auf das Hospital legt, gelten sie für die gleiche Bogenfarbe oder kann man sie auf zwei unterschiedliche Bögen verteilen?

Antwort:Man kann im Spiel bei der Karte Brot und Spiele die beiden Bürgerfiguren (Wenn man mehrer Bürgerfiguren hat) auch auf unterschiedliche Bögen legen (Kultur, Bildung oder Gesundheit). Beim Hospital wäre es als auch möglich eine Bürgefigur auf den schwarzen Bogen und eine Bürgerfigur auf den blauen Bogen zu setzen.
>---

The last sentence reads : "... So in the case of the hospital it is possible to place one figure on the black arch and one figure on the blue arch."
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Jacek Nowak
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Wow, after more than 4 years it's finally clear. Thanks a lot .
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Sebastian
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Well, but this means, you don't have to put all your figures on a single building. For every figure you can choose an arch of your wish. By placing three figures not knowing anything about the folks voice you can place one figure on each o he three criteria.
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Jacek Nowak
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Not really. It was explained before that (according to English and German rules as well) you must place all the citizens on ONE building. The question was "do they have to be placed on the same arch in case of the Hospital?" And the answer here is "NO."

Must play it again, great game.
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Sebastian
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I am German, and when I translate the whole answer of the author into English, the first sentence means:
In the game when playing the card "Bread and Games", you can put both figures (both, because the question was about two figures) on different arches (culture, education, health).
This answer wouldn't make any sense, if you can't put the figures on different buildings, because there can't be a situation where to put figures on culture (white) a different colored arch. The question was about the hospital, the second sentence of the answer was a special hospital answer, but the FIRST sentence of the author is a general answer about chosing different arches.
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Werner Bär
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sneuhauss wrote:
The question was about the hospital, the second sentence of the answer was a special hospital answer, but the FIRST sentence of the author is a general answer about chosing different arches.

The author was working on an expansion, which was never published. It's possible that he answered the question very generally with expansion buildings in mind.
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chrisr
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It's quite confusing in the rules because two figures do not fit on a single arch well..

It might make you think they must have meant one figure can go on each arch only once.. however it seems the rule is you place all the figures on one and only one arch.

to make the rule clear the rule book should say one and only one or one each.. not just one

To me it is a fine game with either ruling..
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Mr. Grace
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We think of this feature as the " visiting experts", who enhance the value of the institution during their term of employment.

As such, it makes complete sense to think a Player might " hire" two or three of them, and assign them to different branches of the Hospital.

For that matter, I wouldn't worry about assigning even three " experts" to three different buildings !
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