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Subject: Deckbuilding - strongest base? rss

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Joe Stude
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I've recently finally jumped into deckbuilding a bit. I decided to try Hoax as my base people not only because they're one of my favorites to play preconstructed, but also because they seem to be neglected in favor of peoples like Flit and Aqua. For anyone out there but especially those who are involved in the German side of things (the league season, whatever), how do you feel the peoples rank in terms of using them as a deckbuilding base?

As a side note, the other night I playtested my Hoax deck vs. a couple of proven decks (the 2006 Euro Champ and Erml's league season 7 winning deck) and although I haven't managed a win yet, the games have been more competitive than I expected. Even though playing against oneself is a little strange, if you can play objectively rather than with full information it's a great way to test the flow of a deck. Anyway, gotta keep tweaking!
 
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Jack Wraith
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I think Hoax and Aqua are the two most solid bases for tournament play, simply because they have 'answer cards' for so many situations. Decks like Khind and Terrah can overwhelm you from the outset, but may not be able to recover from bad draws or unusual cards combos. Flit and Pillar won't overwhelm anyone, but can usually recover well. By contrast, both Hoax and Aqua can often do both, primarily because of things like Leadership and Support cards that provide answers to problems. I don't think Mimix or Vulca are as good as the other six in providing a base.
 
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Karl
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All 8 peoples + inquisitors (all experience in the league is pre Buka)?

I'd say the strongest are Aqua and Flit (even if a Terrah deck won the EM 2005). And be sure that the Flit are very capable of killing you in pure strengh.

And if you are looking for a sure way to loose pick Hoax. Noone plays Hoax these days and that few who try soon give up. If you think about playing Hoax, basically pick Aqua instead. Very similar style, but faster and better protected against enemy attacks. I think there is some hope for the Hoax in the Buka deck, but that has yet to be determined.
 
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Matthew M
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kilrah wrote:


And if you are looking for a sure way to loose pick Hoax.


Is that a challenge?

-MMM
 
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Joe Stude
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Heh, that's kinda why I built the Hoax deck, Octavian. I never do things the "easy" way.
 
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Karl
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Octavian wrote:
kilrah wrote:

And if you are looking for a sure way to loose pick Hoax.

Is that a challenge?
-MMM


.

But the real challenge right now seems to be a Khind deck using Snake Tongue. 45 cards in a Khind deck - ouch.

Good deck can of course be buuilt with the Hoax and 45'Khind. But one that can win a tourney?
 
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Matthew M
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Well, obviously not every inquisitor is ideal for every people. But to say that Hoax are weak as a base deck in general...well that's definitely a challenge. I could imagine a fairly straight forward direct-dragon-attraction/dragon-denial deck with Swift Fist using them working well - throw in a crystal or two to make certain. Hell...I've already half finished it for you.

-MMM
 
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AxonDomini
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kilrah wrote:

But the real challenge right now seems to be a Khind deck using Snake Tongue. 45 cards in a Khind deck - ouch.

Good deck can of course be buuilt with the Hoax and 45'Khind. But one that can win a tourney?


I suspect the new Ships found in the Buka deck could be a big help here. That's a total of nine cards you'll get to set aside for later gang use.

And, I'm a bit surprised to hear about the Hoax being a "weak" base for customizing decks. They have some of the most generally useful utility cards in the game, IMO. They don't have the "killer" cards that other decks have (i.e. Trembling Earthquake, Drown Opposition, Hank Highflyer Hawk, etc. etc.), but they have quite a few cards that are handy in a wide variety of situations (Muster Reinforcements, Trigger Brainstorm, Bethenita the Storyteller, etc. etc.). I actually see them as a flexible deck that can be taken in a few different directions with Inquisitor play.
 
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Joe Stude
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I can see how they might be considered weak, actually. There are consistently better zero moon characters to be found in just about every other people deck, such that there's little reason to choose most of the zero moon Hoax characters. You can dance around that by choosing higher power zero moon characters from other people, but you can't dance around things like a complete lack of free cards, etc. I'm not convinced they're the Blue Moon whipping boys yet though.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Jowjow wrote:
I can see how they might be considered weak, actually. There are consistently better zero moon characters to be found in just about every other people deck, such that there's little reason to choose most of the zero moon Hoax characters.


Which zero moon cards a deck has isn't relevant to its strength in constructed deck play, because if any zero moon cards make it to the final cut they will be switched out for whatever you think are the best zero moon cards. In effect, all zero moon cards can be treated as in all decks.

What is relevant is how many zero moon cards the deck has. All things being equal, in standard constructed deck play (i.e. without inquisitors) having zero moon cards is good, you get to replace them without "wasting" moons. But that ties you to replacing characters, which may not be what you want to do, and it's an uphill task replacing those characters and extending a deck with most of the inquisitors.

That brings out a point: that constructing with inquisitors is a different kettle of fish than without. Most of the German comments seem to be about play with inquisitors.
 
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Karl
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Indeed, Hoax were pretty strong in regular deck building. But sice the introduction of the inquisitors they suffered. Biggest problem is the slow buildup of power. The current German decks all seem to focus on speed at least as a secondary objective, some even to a degee as to almost completely ignore protective cards and just pump out strength (and ignore symbols to prevent shields). Thus one indirectly also blocks cards like Bethinada or supports without power as the enemy cannot play them AND achieve the power needed. Also one or two support killing cards are often a given in any deck. This all works pretty efficiently against the Hoax.
 
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Joe Stude
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Huh. It hadn't even occurred to me to construct without inquisitors. The only reasons I can see for doing that are if you just don't like the inquisitor effects or if you prefer the shorter games 30-card decks afford.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Jowjow wrote:
It hadn't even occurred to me to construct without inquisitors.


For the best part of a couple of years, constructing decks without inquisitors was the only option people had.

If you prefer to work into things more gently, constructing without inquisitors gives you that option. Some do, some don't.
 
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