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Subject: some rules questions/problems rss

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Anwar Dalati
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Hi,

I've got a few rules questions that I haven't found on the board yet and some questions about game balance/gameplay.

Rules Questions:
- When I use a supporting character on the board, can I then use his support (action) ability directly from the board or do I have to move him/her to the card first? The first variant would make some supporters WAY more powerful than others.

- What does the "Heroes Assemble" (name?) card do? The German text seems to be completely broken...

- What does Jameson/Ben Urich/Jessica Jones do? I allows me to play two Resource cards? What if those cards require an action?

- Where does it say that the attacker rolls first, then the defender?

- Related to this: When do I have to announce the use of an Ally/Supporter/Backup Effect (like "Protected")?

- When I use an ally to use his dice value instead of mine, do Agent Cards (like "Ninjas of the Hand" reduce his dice as well? Because on the German cards it says "Reduce the superhero's ability until the end of combat". This would imply that they have NO effect on allies.

Gamplay Questions:

- Anyone else find the game too short as well? I think the regular VP goal should be more like 20 points.

- Anyone else find the Avengers impossible to play? Red skulls "Scheming" ability is just too hard. I mean boosting the trouble level by 2 (Iron Man) or 3 (Thor, Hulk) virtually guarantees that you can play those really tough villains and as this is only his special power you can even support this tough guy as well...

- Anyone else find the Marvel Knights too easy? They have a level 3 troubleshooting rating in all 3 types and the Kingping's scheming ability is a joke compared to Red Skull. In addition you can't really use him to boost the trouble levels most of the time, as the MK player will heavily rely on "Danger" missions (because that's Spidey's specialty and he is very powerful for his price) and he has a level of 0 in that.

- Has anyone ever managed to actually complete his Mastermind's Masterplan? The game is usually much too short for that. The most I ever saw was stage 2 once, in a very lucky game (lucky for the Mastermind that is).



Umm yeah, that's it... lot's of questions, I know.

Thanks for your patience.

- Anwar
 
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Daniel Becerra Aller
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Anwar wrote:
Hi,

I've got a few rules questions that I haven't found on the board yet and some questions about game balance/gameplay.

Rules Questions:
- When I use a supporting character on the board, can I then use his support (action) ability directly from the board or do I have to move him/her to the card first? The first variant would make some supporters WAY more powerful than others.


Yes, you can use the Support abilities from the board. Just move the hero back to Recovery as usual when conducting the action.

Anwar wrote:

- What does the "Heroes Assemble" (name?) card do? The German text seems to be completely broken...


It allows you to move one supporting hero to a district where you already have a ready hero a put him on READY status.
Other twisted plays aside, that allows you, f example, to save 2 plot points when you put a level 3 hero on support and then use the action to move it to a ready postion on a district.

Sure, it's not the best card even, but has its uses.

Anwar wrote:

- What does Jameson/Ben Urich/Jessica Jones do? I allows me to play two Resource cards? What if those cards require an action?

They allow you to manipulate somehow the story track: rearrange all four cards any way you like, and as a bonus, draw (not play) two resource cards.

Anwar wrote:

- Where does it say that the attacker rolls first, then the defender?

couldn't find it now, sorry.
But I'm pretty sure it's an "official" way of rolling combat dice.

Anwar wrote:

- Related to this: When do I have to announce the use of an Ally/Supporter/Backup Effect (like "Protected")?

That I could find.
Last page on the manual, under "SPECIAL ABILITIES". Depending if the ability itself modifies the roll, the outcome, last for a round or for the entire combat, etc.

Anwar wrote:

- When I use an ally to use his dice value instead of mine, do Agent Cards (like "Ninjas of the Hand" reduce his dice as well? Because on the German cards it says "Reduce the superhero's ability until the end of combat". This would imply that they have NO effect on allies.

Tricky one.
I think they would modify ally strength also. But not betting for it, sure.
That would make allies even better than they are now, and I hope they wouldn't.

Anwar wrote:

- Anyone else find the game too short as well? I think the regular VP goal should be more like 20 points.

It's not the game itself, but the scenarios that are too short.
I recommend you playing "Acts of Vengeance", imho the best secenario by far.

Anwar wrote:

- Anyone else find the Avengers impossible to play? Red skulls "Scheming" ability is just too hard. I mean boosting the trouble level by 2 (Iron Man) or 3 (Thor, Hulk) virtually guarantees that you can play those really tough villains and as this is only his special power you can even support this tough guy as well...

Let's say that the Avengers have a different approach to headlines: doesn't care what comes out, I have a green giant and a whacky viking to kick their ass!

Thor is the best hero, and there are not many villains he can't crush under mjolnir.

True, Red skull cheming skill is impressive, but you can play accordingly: try to avoid mastermind headlines, or to the weaker ones, f example.

Anwar wrote:

- Anyone else find the Marvel Knights too easy? They have a level 3 troubleshooting rating in all 3 types and the Kingping's scheming ability is a joke compared to Red Skull. In addition you can't really use him to boost the trouble levels most of the time, as the MK player will heavily rely on "Danger" missions (because that's Spidey's specialty and he is very powerful for his price) and he has a level of 0 in that.

That's odd. I had also thought that on MKnights on the first games, but then agian I think they count too much on the luck with the trouble level. On a bad roll, they are really screwed, for elektra and Daredevil are too weak to cope any serious villain.
Also, don't underestimate Kingpin scheming ability. It can be used after rolling dice, in order to get trouble level to that 4th point you need to play Dr. Ock... devil

Anwar wrote:

- Has anyone ever managed to actually complete his Mastermind's Masterplan? The game is usually much too short for that. The most I ever saw was stage 2 once, in a very lucky game (lucky for the Mastermind that is).

Again, play "Acts of vengeance".

Aside, on a "The Nest" scenario, I'd managed to get Kingpin Masterplan on the second turn...

Caedes
 
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Francesco Nepitello
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Caedes wrote:
Anwar wrote:

- When I use an ally to use his dice value instead of mine, do Agent Cards (like "Ninjas of the Hand" reduce his dice as well? Because on the German cards it says "Reduce the superhero's ability until the end of combat". This would imply that they have NO effect on allies.

Tricky one.
I think they would modify ally strength also. But not betting for it, sure. That would make allies even better than they are now, and I hope they wouldn't.


Agents always DO reduce the number of dice rolled by a Hero, even when using an Ally to 'replace' a rating.

Many thanks to Caedes for his answers!

Francesco
 
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Anwar Dalati
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Hello!

Thank you for that very quick and very complete reply!

Some comments, if I may:

Caedes wrote:

Yes, you can use the Support abilities from the board. Just move the hero back to Recovery as usual when conducting the action.


Hmm... that seems to be a bit broken, balance wise. Because just moving the hero back to his card also costs an action. As I said, I find this to make some character's insanely cool in supporting positions (Wolverine, Jean Grey e.g.)


Caedes wrote:

It allows you to move one supporting hero to a district where you already have a ready hero a put him on READY status.
Other twisted plays aside, that allows you, f example, to save 2 plot points when you put a level 3 hero on support and then use the action to move it to a ready postion on a district.

Sure, it's not the best card even, but has its uses.


Yeah, not very good. I think I'm gonna continue playing it as we do now: Play it when you move a hero and you may move a supporting hero along, even if he was already on the board (playing the card doesn't cost an action).

Caedes wrote:

They allow you to manipulate somehow the story track: rearrange all four cards any way you like, and as a bonus, draw (not play) two resource cards.


Duh! Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Card text is broken.

Caedes wrote:

That would make allies even better than they are now, and I hope they wouldn't.


As you can see, the designers are on your side. thumbsup
I also agree, making the allies even more powerful is definitely not neccessary.

Caedes wrote:

It's not the game itself, but the scenarios that are too short.
I recommend you playing "Acts of Vengeance", imho the best secenario by far.


That one I haven't played so far... we had like 6 games or so, 2 times heroes reborn and 4 scenario ones.

Caedes wrote:

Let's say that the Avengers have a different approach to headlines: doesn't care what comes out, I have a green giant and a whacky viking to kick their ass!


You mean you start with activating Thor right from the start? I always found that to be a bit cost intensive... I would also disagree that Thor is the best hero, maybe the most powerful, but he has rather unimpressive troubleshooting levels.

Caedes wrote:

True, Red skull cheming skill is impressive, but you can play accordingly: try to avoid mastermind headlines, or to the weaker ones, f example.


That will only take you so far and if you only stick to the low power headlines, you won't win the game. Still I haven't played too many games yet, so maybe they are just a bit tricky to play.


Caedes wrote:

That's odd. I had also thought that on MKnights on the first games, but then agian I think they count too much on the luck with the trouble level. On a bad roll, they are really screwed, for elektra and Daredevil are too weak to cope any serious villain.


While that is true, I have rarely seen DD and Elektra used as active heroes. As I said, the MK player will rely primarily on Spidey and sometimes on Dr. Strange (especially if he got the power up that reduces Strange to level 2!). Incidentially I also find Dr. Strange to be the best hero... almost as powerful as Thor and a whopping level 3 in mystery!

Again, thank you very much for a very good reply!

- Anwar
 
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Francesco Nepitello
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Anwar wrote:
Caedes wrote:

Yes, you can use the Support abilities from the board. Just move the hero back to Recovery as usual when conducting the action.


Hmm... that seems to be a bit broken, balance wise. Because just moving the hero back to his card also costs an action. (Wolverine, Jean Grey e.g.)


Moving a Hero from Support to Recovey costs an action only if you do it during the turn, and you usually don't need to. You can simply leave a Hero in Support until the end of the turn to have it available again in Recovery for free.

Francesco

 
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Anwar Dalati
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Francesco Nepitello wrote:

Moving a Hero from Support to Recovey costs an action only if you do it during the turn, and you usually don't need to. You can simply leave a Hero in Support until the end of the turn to have it available again in Recovery for free.


Okay... I just re-read the rules and it indeed says that you get plot points for heroes in supporting places on the board. That makes more sense now.

BTW... thank you again for making such a great game, I really enjoy the look and feel of the game, very truthful to the comics!
As I said, I bought it at Essen and that's only one month agon and played it 6 times already, which is quite a lot for me, as I'm primarily a roleplayer, not a boardgamer.

Really looking forward to any expansions, so get them going!

- Anwar
 
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Sascha Hoppe
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Caedes wrote:

Anwar wrote:

- Anyone else find the Avengers impossible to play? Red skulls "Scheming" ability is just too hard. I mean boosting the trouble level by 2 (Iron Man) or 3 (Thor, Hulk) virtually guarantees that you can play those really tough villains and as this is only his special power you can even support this tough guy as well...

Let's say that the Avengers have a different approach to headlines: doesn't care what comes out, I have a green giant and a whacky viking to kick their ass!

Thor is the best hero, and there are not many villains he can't crush under mjolnir.

True, Red skull cheming skill is impressive, but you can play accordingly: try to avoid mastermind headlines, or to the weaker ones, f example.
Caedes


Yeah, Red Skull is tough. But if you make sure to tweak your strategy so that you always have more than one ready hero in a district, you should prevail most of the time. If Iron Man has 3 KO due to the booster card, you can put 3 heroes with 3 KO to a district, and there is always Thor's outwit ability that is really good and always quite balanced to his attack ablity.

That reflects the comics, where the avengers are the "greatest heroes on earth who solve problems so big that noone could have faced them on their own." So it feels like: OK, if the trouble level isn't at least 8, the Avengers wouldn't even get out of their beds
So the designers had to make Red Skull really evil, to balance out the Avengers.
Actually, if you play Acts of Vengeance (random Nemesis) the Avengers can become quite easy to win with, because if you face a Nemesis other than Red Skull the other players have to combine forces to stop you when you play the Avengers, otherwise you kick their behinds! :-D
 
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Daniel Becerra Aller
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schmoove_de wrote:

So the designers had to make Red Skull really evil, to balance out the Avengers.
Actually, if you play Acts of Vengeance (random Nemesis) the Avengers can become quite easy to win with, because if you face a Nemesis other than Red Skull the other players have to combine forces to stop you when you play the Avengers, otherwise you kick their behinds! :-D


Not quite sure Red Skull is deadlier than other MAstermind. I think each one has his uses.

For Example, I can see Dr. Doom sweeping away any avenger in combat, only worried against Thor, thanks to his "combat suit" uber-power.

I think that each Villain has his weak and strong points. And to know them, exploit them and learn how to use is a great part of playing a villain.

The only rule-wise thing I don't like on Mastermind villains is the Henchmen rule: too random. Red skull + No allies + Extra Ko + -1 Hero wits is awesome, REd skull + Initiative + Dodge + Innocent Bystanders not so much.

Maybe the Henchmen should be played by first drawing X amount of cards, then playing x free backup effects.

And why is that Dr Doom has no henchmen score? It denies them of the surprise element... only one card... .pleeeeeeaaaaaseeeeee...

Caedes
 
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Michael Denman
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Caedes wrote:
For Example, I can see Dr. Doom sweeping away any avenger in combat, only worried against Thor, thanks to his "combat suit" uber-power.

Maybe the Henchmen should be played by first drawing X amount of cards, then playing x free backup effects.

And why is that Dr Doom has no henchmen score?


Since Masterminds are swapped very infrequently, how well they would do against another team seems to be of minimal interest. (shrug)

Your Henchman change would REALLY strengthen the Mastermind and I'm not so sure that's a good idea. For the most part, the hero goes into a Mastermind battle knowing exactly what the odds are. Having SOME uncertainty is good for the villain, but too much swings things the other way.

Yeah, Doom's lack of Henchmen is... sad. If that doesn't change though, your idea about changing how Henchmen work would REALLY de-value him.

Here's another idea for you to consider if you want to alter the Henchman rule. What if villain cards could be assigned to a MasterMind during the Planning Stage? These cards would be face-up and they would REDUCE the number of Henchmen cards drawn during a Mastermind headline (you could never have more cards assigned to a villain than their Henchmen rating). In this way, you'd be able to customize your villain, yet you'd pay the price of sacrificing card draws and surprise.
 
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Daniel Becerra Aller
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Trump wrote:

Since Masterminds are swapped very infrequently, how well they would do against another team seems to be of minimal interest. (shrug)

It was just to show that it's not Red Skull the super-villain killing machine. All Mastermind villains are a force to be reckoned, I think.

Trump wrote:

Your Henchman change would REALLY strengthen the Mastermind and I'm not so sure that's a good idea. For the most part, the hero goes into a Mastermind battle knowing exactly what the odds are. Having SOME uncertainty is good for the villain, but too much swings things the other way.

Maybe you're right, 'cause it will end by always playing the same effects over and over again. Even worse, since you would like to use them on your Villain, you'd never backup "normal" enemies which such things as Fury or certain Agents.

Let's erase it from the "house rules to try" list, then...

Trump wrote:

Yeah, Doom's lack of Henchmen is... sad. If that doesn't change though, your idea about changing how Henchmen work would REALLY de-value him.

Poor guy. All the world is arranged against him...

Trump wrote:

Here's another idea for you to consider if you want to alter the Henchman rule. What if villain cards could be assigned to a MasterMind during the Planning Stage?

Not a bad idea, but I see it ending as I said before, even more so: saving all the punch for when the Great One gets down to the arena.

Caedes
 
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