Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Madeira» Forums » General

Subject: Welcome new players?? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andrew J
United States
Beverly Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Earlier this morning, about 7:15am EDT, I received an email from Cardhaus Games informing me that, as part of their Memorial Day Weekend Sale, they were offering Madeira for $12.99!

Having already discovered the beauty and richness of Madeira I did not need an additional copy myself, but thought this would be a great opportunity to recommend the game to new players. When I checked the website for Cardhaus just after getting the email, they had not yet listed the reduced price but their stock numbers indicated that they had something like 62 copies in stock.

I informed a friend, who about lunchtime indicated to me that Cardhaus was now listing Madeira as out of stock.

So, I hope that we will soon be welcoming a lot of new regular players to this exceptional game and that all of those copies didn't just get purchased by someone hoping to turn a quick profit on eBay.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Shanowitz
United States
Bristol
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It was also $5.49 for several days from a seller here on BGG. My $5.49 copy just came in the mail so I'll be a new Madeira player if I ever get it to the table.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was actually going to buy 9-10 copies just to give as gifts. But as Keeop said, it sold out instantly. I even had my cart loaded before the sale started.

Given how fast it sold out, I think it was sale bait, i.e. very few copies. I don't expect "we will soon be welcoming a lot of new regular players to this exceptional game".

Quote:
and that all of those copies didn't just get purchased by someone hoping to turn a quick profit on eBay
Even they did, wouldn't that be the same number of new people playing?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew J
United States
Beverly Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
I was actually going to buy 9-10 copies just to give as gifts. But as Keeop said, it sold out instantly. I even had my cart loaded before the sale started.

Given how fast it sold out, I think it was sale bait, i.e. very few copies. I don't expect "we will soon be welcoming a lot of new regular players to this exceptional game".

Quote:
and that all of those copies didn't just get purchased by someone hoping to turn a quick profit on eBay
Even they did, wouldn't that be the same number of new people playing?

Depends on what they sell them for. If they turned around and sold them at substantially below MSRP, but still enough to make a profit, then probably yes (maybe you read this as implicit in my statement that they turn the games for a 'quick profit').

If they hold them for sale at MSRP, or at a slight discount, then eventually they will probably sell them all at a higher profit, and there will still be just as many people playing the game, but this will be more of the trickle-in effect of new players of Madeira that is already occurring.

What I was hoping for was a substantial influx of new players at the same time so that this game got more attention and there was more buzz around it generally (which I thought the discount might facilitate).

I think your suspicion that this may have just been sale bait is probably not far off.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A K
msg tools
Same here
I got it for $5.49 as well!
I'm so excited about this game, though my brain will be burning...
(this is #1 heavier game 2014 according to Runthrough video)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ARK9 wrote:
I got it for $5.49
Where, when, how?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon
United States
Fremont
CA
flag msg tools
badge
For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
ARK9 wrote:
I got it for $5.49
Where, when, how?

I think that was the WDE sale.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colin
United States
Covington
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DoubleH wrote:
curtc wrote:
ARK9 wrote:
I got it for $5.49
Where, when, how?

I think that was the WDE sale.

Yes it was WDE, and was on sale late last week. I too picked up a copy and look forward to getting this one to the table.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What's WDE?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
1. White Dragon Enterprises sold copies for $5.49 on and off for about a week, most recently on Thursday. See the BGG price history here: https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/pricehistory/thing/9552...

2. There were over sixty copies of Madeira available in the Cardhaus, and they did not sell out "instantly." The game was identified hours earlier as one of the best deals in the sale, and it certainly sold quickly. At 12:04, there were around 28 copies left, and that dropped below 20 copies by 12:05. It was sold out by 12:08. That's not "sale bait," simply a "sale."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not by my clock. And apparently others.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Well, I could have added that the sale started at 12:00 by my clock. But I suppose that there are indeed other clocks.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:
Well, I could have added that the sale started at 12:00 by my clock. But I suppose that there are indeed other clocks.
I was referring to the delta from start time, not local time.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pastuzyn
United States
Midland
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If you happen to be coming to Origins and are a morning person, I'll be teaching the game at 8AM in the Board Room on Friday of the convention. I have room for two more players (a friend wants to get a game in and this was the best time for us). Should take about three hours to get done.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kirk Thomas
United States
RIVERSIDE
MO
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
$5.49. $12.99. Whatever somebody resells it for on ebay.

Sure, look for a good deal, but get a copy of this game! I played it for the first time at Geekway and instantly loved it. If you like heavier Euros, you will too
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joy Thompson
United States
Pullman
WA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I actually picked it up for $5.49 from WDE and am somewhat scared of what I have done but for that price I couldn't pass it up. I tend to be a more light weight gamer with Stone Age and Lords of Waterdeep being the ones that I can get to the table.

Have I bitten off more than I can chew and what tips would you recommend for someone who has just jumped in the deep end. I watched part of Rahdo's run through but I would love some general tips for a person who is making a leap in weight on a game like this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JoyNoelle2000 wrote:
Have I bitten off more than I can chew
Probably

JoyNoelle2000 wrote:
what tips would you recommend for someone who has just jumped in the deep end.
1) Read the latest rules available online rather than the ones in the box.
2) Set the game up and physically move pieces around as you read the rules. Play a 3-player half game where you play all players.
3) Re-read the rules specifically looking for what you might have missed.
4) Be patient. Expect to spend a few hours on this.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew J
United States
Beverly Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
JoyNoelle2000 wrote:
Have I bitten off more than I can chew
Probably

JoyNoelle2000 wrote:
what tips would you recommend for someone who has just jumped in the deep end.
1) Read the latest rules available online rather than the ones in the box.
2) Set the game up and physically move pieces around as you read the rules. Play a 3-player half game where you play all players.
3) Re-read the rules specifically looking for what you might have missed.
4) Be patient. Expect to spend a few hours on this.

Good tips here (which you'll see correspond to my general approach, in much more concise verbiage ). When initially approaching new heavy games, I recommend:

1) Reading the rules. Twice. I don't find that heavy games lend themselves well to the just-figure-it-out-as-you-go approach. The first time reading the rules I read them from cover-to-cover, understanding that I might not immediately pick up on how every mechanic fits together in the game, but just to get a general sense of how the game arc fits together (e.g., in Madeira there are five basic rounds, each round consists of Phases A through E, in each Phase the general sequence of events is...). For the second reading, I set the game up and moved the pieces around as I read the rules as Curt recommends above.

2) Playing a practice game. I normally play the practice game with my wife. She's generally agreeable to listening to a long rules explanation, and then we generally play a two-player game where we "play open" (i.e., for each move, we explain what we think we are trying to accomplish and what our strategic goals are as it fits into the overall game). This is useful for understanding how the mechanics all fit together and for starting to get a handle on how to play the game well. It also provides lots of 'fair' opportunities for rules clarifications while avoiding the, "Well, you never said you could/couldn't do that!" With a heavy game that has multiple paths to victory like Madeira I don't think this spoils the fun of 'figuring out the game on your own,' but your mileage may vary. This step also makes it so you are better able to explain the rules to potentially less-forgiving parties than a spouse/partner/significant other.

3) Rereading the rules (again!) after playing the practice game, specifically to check whether any mistakes were made. If you played certain rules wrong, make a mental note and immediately discuss the corrections with your practice partner (if any) immediately so you don't misremember the incorrect way you actually played as the accurate way to play a rule later.

4) Choosing players for the initial game who are agreeable to listening to a longer-than-usual rules explanation. Again, Madeira doesn't lend itself well, in my opinion, to those who adopt a do-not-talk-about-the-rules-I-just-want-to-start-playing approach. Teaching the game (correctly) will further instill the rules in your mind, which can be important if you won't be playing repeated sessions of this game within a short period of time. Alternatively you can repeat this process every time you pull the game out.

5) Avoiding attempts to short-circuit reading the rules by having another person (reviewer, blogger, etc.) give you just a basic gist of the rules. Frequently these reviews are put out after the reviewer/blogger has played the game once, maybe twice, and frequently rules mistakes are made (as any person might understandably make after one or two plays).

After you play a few heavy games, you'll probably be able to cut down on this process quite a bit. For example, I usually now read the rules once and then immediately move to the practice game (I find I rarely have to set a game up to understand the rules anymore, but that's because after a while you'll be able to easily see how certain mechanics or concepts in a new game translate from a game you already know how to play).

Good luck! I think you'll find Madeira well worth the investment, if you like 'thinky' games. If 'thinky' games turn you off because they seem more like work than they do leisure (e.g., did your stomach just churn at the idea of reading the rulebook multiple times?), then you might consider making a gift of you copy to someone who does like 'thinky' games.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls