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Subject: Is this a RIP OFF? Your opinion please! rss

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Carol Carpenter
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I received this game Aton from Cardhaus.




It was from their Ding and Dent section. Now, I realize these games are not perfect, but I really didn't expect it to look like a werewolf had gotten to it. This did not happen during shipping, by the way--the mailing box was perfectly intact.




I emailed Cardhaus with a couple of pics telling them I thought the damage was excessive (I paid $14 for this which is not THAT much less than the new price of $16). They emailed me back saying I could return the game and they would credit me. But when I asked if they would reimburse my cost to ship it back, they said "We don't reimburse for returns due to customer dissatisfaction."

I have already decided not to do business with them anymore since I have been very happy with Fairplay Games and Thoughthammer. I have gotten Ding and Dent items from both of them several times and in each case the damage was barely noticeable OR the discount was really big.

OK, so here are my questions to you the BGG community:
1. Is this damage is excessive even for a ding and dent item?
2. Should they reimburse me for shipping?
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Michael Webb
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Personally, I would not have accepted a game like that with any description other than "severe damage" and a discount to boot. A game box that has that degree of damage is a serious issue for most prospective buyers, and it is the seller's responsibility to make it clear just how extensive the problems are when they are trying to sell such an item.

I, personally, would be upset about having to pay anything to ship the item back to them, because the initial sale was based on lack of information...
 
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Michael Barnes
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Buy a damaged product, receive a damaged product. Most places will tell you what the level of damage is, if not you ought to ask.
 
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Tim Thorp
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When I saw the picture, I immediately thought "$5 to $7 tops". I'd say that $14 is WAY too much for this kind of damage. It seems to me they should maybe have a more detailed description of the damage.
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I've purchased ding-n-dent games before, but never one with this much damage. I think I would be upset, too, but here's a question: Are the components still intact? That might be their defense in the minor discount for the damage.

Not that I agree with that, I'm just saying....
 
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Kane Klenko
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If they're gonna sell games like that they should change the name of that section. Ding? I don't think so. Dent? Nope. Maybe Ripped-n-Ravaged?

 
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Morgan Dontanville
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They are totally justified is selling you that piece of crap, just as you are totally justified in encouraging everyone not to contribute to that kind of shoddy business practice.

Thanks for the info.

I hope that this was worth it for Cardhaus.
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Dennis Bingham
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I think this one is WAY beyond ding and dent...but you'll have a hard time sending it back for a full refund including shipping since they don't really explain what they consider "ding and dent".

Let it be an experience and a warning to others.
 
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Alexander B.
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I want:

-35% off
-free shipping
-no sales tax
-even more off for a damaged box
-when the damaged box arrived I want my money back
-and also for them to pay for me to ship it back
-and when they don't I want to complain and try to slander them

Me, me, me. With customers like this, who needs enemies?

I've placed around 25 orders with this company and everything went flawlessly (even threw in various "freebies" at times), but then, I never bought anything that they claimed would have a damaged box, and I take responsibility for my choices.
 
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Kurt Rompot
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From the Cardhouse website:

Quote:
Products marked as 'Ding & Dented' are ones that have been damaged in shipment. They will still contain all parts for the game, but will have some sort of damage on the packageing.

The discount on a Ding & Dented game will vary depending on how damaged it is. If you don't mind some minor box damage, Its a good way to get the same game for less.


To me, that looks like more than $2 worth of damage and is definitely more than minor box damage. It is hard to see from the pictures, but can it be taped up?

I've ordered Ding and Dents from other sources and never received anything even close to this.
 
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Eric
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If you still have the original box, re-package it, and write "REFUSED" on it and return it. It will probably work.

Second option, is to refuse the charges on your credit card, as it wasn't satisfactory. Visa and MasterCard will probably side with you on that one.

I've never dealt with them, but after such a nice recommandation, I see I have made the right choice so far! I'm curious as to an official statement on the part of Cardhaus. After all, we don't know if you didn't make the damage yourself. (I'm not saying you're a liar, but it is the internet, and you never know if the other person is honest or not). Having said that, assuming you are telling us the truth (which is most likely), they should refund the return, it IS NOT a ding and dent item, the description should have read : Pile of cardboard scrap put together laugh
 
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Mike zebrowski
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You ordered a game with a damaged box and you got a game with a damaged box.

As long as the contents of the box are fine, I don't see the problem.

Mike Z
 
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Jonathan Degann
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If they called this "box damaged", then there is no basis to expect better. However, I think that "Ding & Dent" definitely carries connotations of less damage than we're seeing here.

Now, FWIW, a member of our group ordered a D&D copy of Boomtown, and the damage was barely noticeable.

Still, I thank you for warning us all away in the future.

Shame on Cardhaus. I think that the maybe $3 that they SHOULD have taken off isn't worth the headache on your part, but ask for it anyway. Consider this a relatively cheap lesson that has benefitted us all.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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That is not minor box damage as they described. They did not deliver the product as advertised, if that's how it arrived from them.

I agree with the person who suggested contacting the credit card company for a charge back. I also, obviously, would never have anything to do with Cardhaus again.

To those who say he should have asked more questions, do you check every time you order from someone and specifically verify that each game you pay for is supposed to be "complete?" If not, would you have no problem if your game arrived missing pieces and feel fine if no one would replace them? After all, if you didn't ask whether the game would be complete you should have no beef if it comes without some components. Right?
 
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Carol Carpenter
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Hmm...very strong opinions on both sides, it seems!

I have decided it's not worth it to ship it back, so I will try to fix it up as best I can, and consider it a lesson learned.

I don't think I am "slandering" the company. I have presented a case of what I received and how they responded, and it's all true.
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Alexander B.
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The issue is not that there are any missing pieces! If that was true, it would be a different story.

Give me a roll of clear packing tape and 5 minutes and the game would be a full game in every way with a taped box: exactly what I would expect from a "dinged" box.

Demanding a refund AND to pay for shipping because the box is "too dinged" is totally absurd, and it sickens me that people are suggested that this customer try to RIP OFF Cardhaus by claiming the package was not delivered.

Just unreal how cheap and evasive of responsiblity some people can be: but then Cardhaus isn't people, it is just an "evil corporation" right? So abusing them, lying about reciept of the package, and expecting them to kiss rump is totally fine...

 
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Alexander B.
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starspangledgirl wrote:
...

I don't think I am "slandering" the company. I have presented a case of what I received and how they responded, and it's all true.


I wasn't referring to you so much: I was referring to the responses of those who claimed that it is clear that you were ripped-off... it is far from clear, although I'd have also HOPED that the damage was a bit less.

Then again, on a 'site where people expect the publisher to replace "worn out cards" and such for free, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
 
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Carol Carpenter
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Alexander B, nobody was telling me to claim the package was undelivered. Cardhaus knows it was delivered, DUH, I sent them photos.

I am not DEMANDING anything. I asked if they would reimburse, they said no. Chill out.
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Scott Woodard
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This is why I like how Boulder handles damaged product... Three categories that (in a word or two) effectively describe what you'll be getting:

Box Damage: Hardly Noticeable
Box Damage: Noticeable
Box Damage: Very Noticeable

Clearly this copy of Aton would fit into the "Very Noticeable" category and I hardly think it's accurate to describe that damage as a "ding" or a "dent".


 
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Paul Sauberer
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diamondspider wrote:
The issue is not that there are any missing pieces! If that was true, it would be a different story.


Cardhaus promised a box with minor damage. They delivered something that did not fit that description. Just because both what was promised and what was delivered are copies of the same game does not make them equivalent. If there was no box at all and the pieces were delivered in a zip loc bag or if the zip loc bag cntained the game components and pieces of the box would there still be nothing to complain about?

Quote:
Give me a roll of clear packing tape and 5 minutes and the game would be a full game in every way with a taped box: exactly what I would expect from a "dinged" box.


Cardhaus claims that discounts are based on how much damage the packaging suffered and states that one can expect "minor" damage. The damaged pictured is in no way minor. If it would take you 5 minutes to make it serviceable, even you are admitting that.

Quote:
Demanding a refund AND to pay for shipping because the box is "too dinged" is totally absurd, and it sickens me that people are suggested that this customer try to RIP OFF Cardhaus by claiming the package was not delivered.


I have not seen anyone suggest that the customer should lie in any way. Cardhaus promised a bix with minor damage. They delivered a box with major damage. They refuse to accept it back, despite the fact that they did not deliver what was promised. It is totally legitimate to go to the credit card company and refuse to pay for a product which was not what was promised.

Quote:
Just unreal how cheap and evasive of responsiblity some people can be:


Exactly. Cardhaus should, instead, have accurately described their product in the first place or owned up to their mistake and done the right thing by this customer. Instead, they are trying desparately to hold on to a couple of bucks.
 
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Tim Myers
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That sure looks like more then $2 worth of damage for a ding & dent product. For a small discount like $2 I would expect a box with some slight crushing damage not a severely torn and crushed box. It looks more like a $6 or $8 ding & dent item.

Have you asked them if they would credit you back part of your purchase price?

You would still get the game at a more appropriate price, you would not have to deal with the return shipping issue and they would not have to resale it.
 
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Ken
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There's "Ding and Dent" and there's "Mangled and Mutilated".

I will not be buying through Cardhaus. Thanks for the PSA, Carol.
 
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Jonathan A.
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This is a tough situation.

I've used Cardhaus many times and have NEVER had any problems with them. Admittedly though, I've never purchased from their "ding and dent" selection.

While I will continue to order (and preorder) from Cardhaus, I'll definitely think twice before selecting from their "ding and dent" section.
 
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Jonathan A.
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What I read on the Cardhaus website:

Quote:
Products marked as 'Ding & Dented' are ones that have been damaged in shipment. Damage may be: dents or dings on an edge/corner/face, corner crushed, small outer-box puncture, or simply having the shrink wrap pulled off of the game. They will still contain all parts for the game, but will have some sort of damage on the packaging.

If you don't mind some minor box damage, Its a good way to get the same game for less.


(underlining is mine)

Did they change their descriptions in response to this thread? Because this seems to me to accurately reflect the damage to the box in question.

edit: Except perhaps the use of the word "minor" in their last sentence.
 
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Dan Dolan
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Next time pay the extra $2 and get the thing new.
 
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