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Subject: Agents on White Spaces? rss

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John Weber
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I have seen this played both ways. I believe the correct interpretation, and one that is supported by the recently-released English edition, Hollywood Blockbuster, is that agents or agency chips cannot be placed on white spaces. What say the cognescenti at BGG on this question?
 
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Larry Rice
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The instructions in Hollywood Blockbuster indicate that agents/agency chips are jokers which can be placed in any white spot. The only place they cannot be placed is on the guest star spot (non-white spot). However, once you use an agency, if you choose to cover it up again, it can only be covered up by another agency tile.
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John Weber
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Gee, Larry, if that's the way the rules should be interpreted, then how come when they have the picture showing where the agency chip can go it doesn't have an arrow to the white space, whereas all the other chips (actors, music, camera, effects) do?

(I am looking at the middle page of the fold-out rules from the new Uberplay edition -- don't see any arrow going from the agency chip to a white position, which suggests to me you can't do it.)
 
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John Weber
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Keep in mind that when I use the term "white space" I am referring to the specific locations on a screenplay that do not have an actor, director, camera, music, special effects or any other symbol. This is the term used in the recent edition of the game as well.
 
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Matthew M
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John Weber wrote:
Gee, Larry, if that's the way the rules should be interpreted, then how come when they have the picture showing where the agency chip can go it doesn't have an arrow to the white space, whereas all the other chips (actors, music, camera, effects) do?


Because there is no such space on the example screenplay used for the Agency tile?

In fact, the text example given has an agency tile going onto a "white position" after a music tile had already been placed there. And the rules portion that explicitly lists guest star positions as being excluded does not also state that the white positions are excluded. If they are indeed excluded, why is it not stated alongside the exclusion of guest star positions?

I see absolutely nothing that restricts agency chips from being placed on the blank spaces. You seem to be extrapolating rules that are not there.


-MMM

 
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Taj Mahal, anyone?
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I've always interpreted the rules the way Larry and Matthew have. However, I do agree with John regarding the missing arrow to the white space, which should have been included in the illustration.
 
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Matthew M
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cornelanner wrote:
I've always interpreted the rules the way Larry and Matthew have. However, I do agree with John regarding the missing arrow to the white space, which should have been included in the illustration.


There is no missing arrow. There is no white position available in that graphic for the arrow to go to. The example with the white position is clearly a separate graphic.

-MMM
 
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Taj Mahal, anyone?
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Octavian wrote:


There is no missing arrow. There is no white position available in that graphic for the arrow to go to. The example with the white position is clearly a separate graphic.

-MMM


I stand corrected, there is no white position in the example provided.

Still, I can see why John (and probably some other players, me included) were initially puzzled. The rules state that "agency chips may be placed on any screenplay position for directors, actors, camera crews, musicians, and special effects". So the rules specify all legal positions except the white spaces!

Had the rules mentioned the white spaces as well, and added an example with a white space (e.g. Casablanca) and an arrow leading to it, much of the confusion could have been avoided (probably ).
 
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Paul Sauberer
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cornelanner wrote:
Octavian wrote:


There is no missing arrow. There is no white position available in that graphic for the arrow to go to. The example with the white position is clearly a separate graphic.

-MMM


I stand corrected, there is no white position in the example provided.

Still, I can see why John (and probably some other players, me included) were initially puzzled. The rules state that "agency chips may be placed on any screenplay position for directors, actors, camera crews, musicians, and special effects". So the rules specify all legal positions except the white spaces![/b]



A white space is a "screenplay position for directors, actors, camera crews, musicians, and special effects". It is just not a screenplay position for a guest star. So if agency chips can be placed where the other chips, except guest stars, can go then they can go on white spaces.
 
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Brad Keck
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Also, when talking about white spaces, doesn't it specify that you can put any tile on them except directors and guest stars?
 
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John Weber
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No, the specific language of the rule for agencies is that they may be placed "on any screenplay position for directors, actors, camera crews, musicians and special effects; however not on guest star positions." The rule is silent as to whether or not an agency chip can be placed on an open white space, and in fact the example talks about an agency chip being placed on top of a musician chip that was placed on a white space, leaving open the question that is the entire subject matter of this thread. (I.e., if the rule was that agency chips could go directly on a white space, then why does the example not say so?)

Furthermore, the rule for placing chips on white spaces states: "White positions on a screenplay may have any of the following production chips allocated to them: actors, camera crews, musicians or special effects." The rule goes on to state that white positions cannot be occupied by directors or guest stars, again leaving open the question raised here -- can an agency chip be placed on an empty white space?
 
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Brad Keck
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In the end, it comes down to this for me. Agent tiles are wild cards; they are there to give you more flexibility in placement. White spaces are wild spaces; they are there to give you more flexibility in placement. The idea that you cannot put a wild on a wild of all things just seems ludicrous.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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John Weber wrote:
No, the specific language of the rule for agencies is that they may be placed "on any screenplay position for directors, actors, camera crews, musicians and special effects; however not on guest star positions." The rule is silent as to whether or not an agency chip can be placed on an open white space, and in fact the example talks about an agency chip being placed on top of a musician chip that was placed on a white space, leaving open the question that is the entire subject matter of this thread. (I.e., if the rule was that agency chips could go directly on a white space, then why does the example not say so?)

Furthermore, the rule for placing chips on white spaces states: "White positions on a screenplay may have any of the following production chips allocated to them: actors, camera crews, musicians or special effects." The rule goes on to state that white positions cannot be occupied by directors or guest stars, again leaving open the question raised here -- can an agency chip be placed on an empty white space?


The answer is clearly yes based on the quoted rules you provide.

If agencies can be placed on any screenplay positions for directors, actors, cameras crews, musicians, and special effects and white positions are valid for actors, camera crews, musicians and special effects then agencies can be placed on white spaces. Those spaces fall under the definition of screenplay positions for what the agency is allowed to substitute.

Sure, the rules could have been repetitive and said, "Yes, we really meant any when it says "any," but it shouldn't be necessary.
 
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John Weber
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Sorry, Paul, I just don't think the answer is clear at all and if I had to make a call based on what I just quoted, I'd rule exactly the opposite. Agree with Brad that from a practical standpoint it doesn't make sense to place the joker (agency chip) on what is for all intent and purpose a wild card space. Putting aside the question of whether or not it would be a legal play, in about 95% of the circumstances it would not make sense (could make sense if that was the only way to complete a movie, I grant you).
 
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Brad Keck
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John Weber wrote:
Sorry, Paul, I just don't think the answer is clear at all and if I had to make a call based on what I just quoted, I'd rule exactly the opposite. Agree with Brad that from a practical standpoint it doesn't make sense to place the joker (agency chip) on what is for all intent and purpose a wild card space. Putting aside the question of whether or not it would be a legal play, in about 95% of the circumstances it would not make sense (could make sense if that was the only way to complete a movie, I grant you).

Hmmmm. That wasn't actually the point I was trying to make. Sure, it might seem that such a move would usually be foolish, but the idea that it would be ILLEGAL is what seems crazy to me.

Like, "Oh, you want to waste a wild card on a wild space? Fine by me!"
 
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Dan Poole
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The rules seem pretty clear to me. They state Agencies cannot be placed on guest star positions. No where do the rules state they cannot be placed on white (wild) positions.

 
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