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Subject: Is the impossible capture possible? I'll explain. rss

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david funch
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I was messing around with the impossible capture situation and possibly figured out a way to make a tower without faulting. This is how I did it.

Place white as a base and lean a disk against it. Then place a black disk so it touches the white base. It's the most basic impossible capture scenerio. White can't form a tower without faulting from the leaner falling. Or can he?

Slide the black disk around the white base so it's opposite the leaner. Now carefully start flipping the black disk up, without losing contact with the white base. When the leaner starts tilting away, slightly move the base and disk you're flipping up, away from the leaner. Slowly finish flipping the disk onto the white base and you did it!

White forms a tower without his leaner falling, while the two disk forming the tower never leave contact with each other. So, would you allow this if someone did it during a game?
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Joe McKinley
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Wouldn't black playing such that their disk touches the white base be considered a fault?
 
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Chris Hawks
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Joe's correct. If, on your turn, two pieces touch on the table that weren't previously touching -- and that should include the one you're placing -- then you've just caused a fault.

(Though pieces that touch while you're still holding them are merely returned to your hand.)
 
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Crazy Bob
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I think he was just presenting how to set up the problem, not saying how it would occur. Assume in a game, someone else has falted by touching your disc, but you disc is holding up a leaner. what do you do?
 
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Chris Hawks
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Oops, you're right.

I'm still uncertain about the solution, however. I know the original rules didn't allow you to manipulate the other player's pieces when trying to convert. However, I think the latest rules edition dropped that restriction.

But it still seems wrong (to me) for white to attempt a conversion by handling black's disk.
 
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david funch
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But it's not black's disk. The situation I described is from black faulting on his turn. It's white's responsibilty to form a tower with those two disks. Yet, with the leaner, as soon as white moves the disk, he creates a fault of his own.

However, like I described, it is possible for white to make his tower without knocking down his leaner.
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Seth Ben-Ezra
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I thought that you had to remove the discs from the play area before replacing them as a tower. Am I incorrect?

Seth Ben-Ezra
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Chris Hawks
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GreatWolf wrote:
I thought that you had to remove the discs from the play area before replacing them as a tower. Am I incorrect?

At first I was just going to say, no, you're wrong. But the more I think about it, the less certain I become. And I don't personally own the game myself, so I can't just grab the rulebook. Hmm. I still think you're probably wrong, but I would like to see the exact wording for tower conversion. I mean, you certainly may form your tower, pick it up, and move to any other position on the table. But do you have to...?



pothocket wrote:
But it's not black's disk. The situation I described is from black faulting on his turn. It's white's responsibilty to form a tower with those two disks. Yet, with the leaner, as soon as white moves the disk, he creates a fault of his own.

But you describe White sliding the black disk around and flipping it up onto the white disk, right? Isn't that what this says:
pothocket wrote:
Slide the black disk around the white base so it's opposite the leaner. Now carefully start flipping the black disk up...
?
 
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Brian Schlichting
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Far from an official ruling ...

We play that any leaner on a faulted magnet is involved in the fault. It's come up a number of times in a few different scenarios. In the one you describe, the next player would sweep up all three magnets (hopefully without disturbing any others) and set up a tower of three for their turn.

Maybe it's a "house rule" - but the rules say that you pick up all magnets involved in the fault (or something like that), but what is considered involved is not so well defined. We defined it...
 
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