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1861: The Railways of the Russian Empire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some Questions rss

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John Weber
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From the first play of this fine looking 18xx game, we had a couple of rules questions:

1. Didn't see anything about the Private companies being closed, so we played as if they remain open for the entire game. Is this correct?

2. Regarding the Ekaterinburg off-map board location, does the 80 bonus for a run to Moscow kick in at any time during the game or only after the first 6 train is bought? (We thought this was a possibility given the fact it was colored gray, but found no support in the rules, so we played it kicked in immediately for any legal route from Moscow -- in our game, it happened once a four run was established).

3. Merger rule 7.2 -- a question arose about the parenthetical caveat "you can run from a city to another space in the same city. for purposes of this rule." One of the players who was familiar with 18EU wondered whether this meant that two companies with links and tokens in the same city (example Kiev or Moscow at the start) could merge without having an actual track connection.) Going by the literal reading of the rule, we played such companies could not merge, and furthermore I noted the 18EU rules specifically mentioned companies "being collated in the same hex" as eligible merger candidates, and without such language in 7.2, I would assume we played correctly. Is this correct?

Appreciations in advance for a quick response.
 
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John Elbl
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1. pg 17 6.8.4 Nationalization 3rd paragraph: "Nationalised Private companies are bought by the Bank for their face value, and are placed on the RSR charter. They pay their revenues into the RSR for the rest of the game." - looks like they remain open in the RSR.

2. pg 3 2.1.1 The Map half way through 1st paragraph: "... Ekaterinburg (on the eastern edge of the map) is normally 40, but counts double if the route also includes Moscow." - seems like it would be immediately.

3. I would agree with your assesment of this rule for Moscow and Kiev.
 
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John Weber
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Thanks for the quick response, Elf Man.
 
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John Elbl
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No problem. Although I could not find anything specific with regards to #3. The Moscow, Kiev tiles are also not clear regarding the Routes section; and whether or not it's "legal" to double-hit them while they are yellow/green. OR if it's legal to token the city "twice" while yellow/green (a la 18EU).

It seems like you should not be able to double-hit them; although it's not entirely clear.
 
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John Weber
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Elf Man, I think the only way in 1861 you can hit the same city more than once is with a second train that is running a different legal route. (See example at top p.15 and read this in connection with rule 6.3., third sentence, stating that each "route" cannot reach or pass through any station more than once.") Well, gee, now that I think about it, then maybe you are right about the Kiev/Moscow yellow/green tiles if you could find a way to construct such a route without having it blocked by another token in the station space.

This raised another question regarding the +10 bonuses from the private companies -- my interpretation from what is at page 4 is that any run including that city is a plus 10 for the Public Company owning that private. (I assume it would be the same for the Russian State RR, but for some reason the rules seem to be silent on this.) Agreed?
 
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John Elbl
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My understanding is that a company that owned a private that gave +10 for Moscow would get +10 for the OR. (Instead of +10 to the value of Moscow... 2+ trains)

The Kiev/Moscow yellow/green double-hit could go either way for me, although I'm leaning more towards saying it's not legal...
 
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John Weber
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Elf Man,

Got to let you know that someone else posted the very same question about the use of the +10 Privates on a yahoo 18xx forum and the answer was that it counts for every run that includes Moscow, not just once per OR. (This would seem to me to be the logical conclusion reading from page 4 of the rules that discusses the Private Company bonuses in the game.) They are still debating the "double hit" with the Moscow/Kiev yellow/green tiles and there's been no definite answer yet.
 
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John Weber
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Here's the official response on two of the unresolved questions from Steve Thomas, who is an expert of sort on these 18xx games, cut and paste from another discussion board devoted solely to 18xx games:

1. Can a yellow/green Mocow or Kiev be 'double hit' by a train as a
> legal route? The definition of a Route does not make this particular
> case clear for me.

No; you can only claim each city once per OR per train, and that remains true even if there are separate stations within the city. St Petersburg before brown also has two stations within the city and the same ruling applies. The red off-board areas too may each be visited at most once per OR per train.

> 2. If a company purchases a private that gives +10 to Moscow. Is that
> +10 added once in the OR?

You can (or possibly must; it's been a while) claim the bonus every time a train owned by the company with the bonus visits Moscow. That is, if you have several trains running to Moscow they each get the bonus. The same is true, mutatis mutandis, for the Odessa and Warsaw bonuses.

Steve Thomas maisnestce@a...

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Patrick Menard
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John Weber wrote:
Elf Man, I think the only way in 1861 you can hit the same city more than once is with a second train that is running a different legal route. (See example at top p.15 and read this in connection with rule 6.3., third sentence, stating that each "route" cannot reach or pass through any station more than once.") Well, gee, now that I think about it, then maybe you are right about the Kiev/Moscow yellow/green tiles if you could find a way to construct such a route without having it blocked by another token in the station space.


As the rules read you could "loop" through a tile twice. (ex. enter Moscow from the south, exit to the SE, enter again in the NE and exit the N).

The relevant section is 6.3 which states that you can't pass through a "small or large station" more than once, not a hex more than once.

It would be interesting if the designer intended it to work differently. (however, hexes similar to this exist in other games and permit looping)
 
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Chris Shaffer
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The designer answered this and it is in the FAQ (available on the yahoogroups site). You cannot double-hit a city.

Note that Steve Thomas, quoted above, wrote the rulebook.
 
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