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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Rules

Subject: can you discard scoring card if you have reached eagle/bear had landed? rss

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Toni Salonen
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So?
 
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Carl Marl
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I would say no. Revealing your held card is NOT the last step in the sequence of play. So you will already have lost the game before the end of the turn.
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Ben Kyo
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I don't think so:

A. Improve DEFCON Status
B. Deal Cards
C. Headline Phase
D. Action Rounds
E. Check Military Operations Status
F. Reveal Held Card
G. Flip ‘The China Card’
H. Advance Turn Marker
I. Final Scoring (after Turn 10 only)

"Upon reaching space 6 (Eagle/Bear has Landed), the player may discard their Held Card at the end of the turn"

Since revealing the held card comes before the end of the turn, if you are holding a scoring card you will lose before you get to discard it.
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Jim McNaughton
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No, absolutely not. A scoring card cannot be held, so it cannot still be in your hand to be discarded at the end of the turn.
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Kristian Thy
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Maccyn wrote:
A scoring card cannot be held


Yes it can. You just lose if you do.

Benkyo wrote:
A. Improve DEFCON Status
B. Deal Cards
C. Headline Phase
D. Action Rounds
E. Check Military Operations Status
F. Reveal Held Card (Tournament only)
G. Flip ‘The China Card’
H. Advance Turn Marker
I. Final Scoring (after Turn 10 only)


FYI this sequence has been errata'd to switch E and F, and the Reveal Held Card step is not tournament-only anymore. See this post. Actually the entire thread is worth reading
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Ben Kyo
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turbothy wrote:
FYI this sequence has been errata'd to switch E and F, and the Reveal Held Card step is not tournament-only anymore. See this post. Actually the entire thread is worth reading

Just the result of copy-paste. Perhaps I should have edited out the inaccurate "tournament only" bit.
 
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Jim McNaughton
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Forgive my immensely stupid assumption that the poster would choose not to lose. shake
 
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Ben Kyo
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Maccyn wrote:
Forgive my immensely stupid assumption that the poster would choose not to lose. shake

No need to get snarky - there is at least one situation where you can end up with a scoring card as a Held Card without intending to ("Ask not..."), and there's nothing wrong with aiming for clarity in rule questions.
 
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Kristian Thy
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Maccyn wrote:
Forgive my immensely stupid assumption that the poster would choose not to lose. shake


You can sit with a scoring card in hand after the action rounds and still win.
 
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Jim McNaughton
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turbothy wrote:
Maccyn wrote:
Forgive my immensely stupid assumption that the poster would choose not to lose. shake


You can sit with a scoring card in hand after the action rounds and still win.


Please explain how a win is possible with a scoring card in hand after the action rounds. According to your previous post (mentioning errata for the sequence of play), the immediate requirement following the completion of the action rounds is to evidence that the held card is not a scoring card.

Without this change to the sequence it would have been possible to win due to military operations before having to evidence your held card.
 
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Kristian Thy
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We Will Bury You. Seriously, take a look at the thread I linked. It's a great read.
 
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Michael Valentine

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turbothy wrote:
We Will Bury You. Seriously, take a look at the thread I linked. It's a great read.


WWBY does not allow you to win after the action rounds with a held scoring card. If you flip the sequence to reveal held scoring cards before mil ops, then the only way to win after the action rounds with a held scoring card is if you're the USA and the USSR also held a scoring card.

Of interest, I disagree with the statement that the official current rule is reveal held scoring card before mil ops. The posted statement by one of the two game designers is inconsistent with both the current official published rules and the current official FAQ. I'd think those take precedent over an informal internet post by one of the two game designers.
 
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MichaelVal wrote:
turbothy wrote:
We Will Bury You. Seriously, take a look at the thread I linked. It's a great read.


WWBY does not allow you to win after the action rounds with a held scoring card.


Dude, it's the verbatim ruling in the post I'm linking to.

I don't know what the point of posting here is if you're going to disregard what the guy who makes the rules says.
 
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Jim McNaughton
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The USSR plays We Will Bury You as an event in their last action round. The USA cannot play US Intervention in their last action round. The 3VP brings the USSR to victory within the action rounds.

This does allow a win with a scoring card in hand, but it is within the action rounds. Equally the USA could trigger nuclear war in their last action round or play a scoring card which pushes the USSR to victory. However, in all these situations hasn't the game ended within the action rounds before the end of the turn?

Maybe the USA plays Five Year Plan in their last action round. The USSR gets to discard their only card, the scoring card applicable to both players, and avoids losing? Still within the action rounds.

My reading is that a card is only described as 'held' once the action rounds are completed and must immediately be proven not to be a scoring card if the game is to continue.

I realise that my first post in this thread could have been more precise, but, assuming that a player wishes to win, a held scoring card "cannot still be in your hand to be discarded at the end of the turn."
 
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Jim McNaughton
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"... the only way to win after the action rounds with a held scoring card is if you're the USA and the USSR also held a scoring card."

I'd have assumed that this means both players lose.
 
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Michael Valentine

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turbothy wrote:
Maccyn wrote:
Forgive my immensely stupid assumption that the poster would choose not to lose. shake


You can sit with a scoring card in hand after the action rounds and still win.


This is incorrect. I looked at the thread and if you meant that you can win with WWBY after the *Soviet* last action round but *during* the USA last action round then don't blame me for your sloppy writing. Dude.
 
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Michael Valentine

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Maccyn wrote:
"... the only way to win after the action rounds with a held scoring card is if you're the USA and the USSR also held a scoring card."

I'd have assumed that this means both players lose.


You'd think so. But, according to the most currently published FAQ, the USA wins.
 
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Emil Wachsmuth
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There's no way both players can lose. There is the possibility for a tie in final scoring, but otherwise, Twilight Struggle will always have a winner.
 
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